TRANSCRIPT
This transcript was completed by an automated system, please forgive any grammatical errors.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
brands, shopify, merchants, chad, ecosystem, agency, apps, bit, david, running, b2b, leverage, checkout, development, touching, started, product, flood, perspective, part
SPEAKERS
David Stober, Chad Fisher, Mariah Parsons
Mariah Parsons 00:05
Greetings and welcome to retention Chronicles, the podcast with learnings from expert e commerce brands and partners. I'm your host, Ryan Parsons. If you're here, you're either on a quest for ecommerce enlightenment, or you accidentally clicked the wrong link. Either way, I am thrilled you stumbled into our corner of the internet. And I hope you'll stick around. We've got pearls of wisdom for everyone, whether you're running a multimillion dollar business, or simply just starting out on your entrepreneurial journey. Before we unleash the brilliance of today's guest, let's give a shout out to our podcast sponsor Malomo. Malomo is so much more than just another Shopify app, their post purchase wizards making beautiful and branded order tracking smoother than a jazz solo. So our amazing founders, like our guests can keep their customers happy and up to date while they track their orders. So hit that subscribe button, like it'll increase your LTV overnight, and go listen to her other episodes. Echo malomo.com That's gomalomo.com Get ready for insights chuckles and perhaps a profound realization or two with this newest episode of retention. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to retention Chronicles. Super excited for this episode here today. We have Chad and David joining us. So thank you both for being here. Our listeners who are frequent listeners will know that this is the second episode that we have done on the agency or the ecosystem series in which our former co host no overhand today is no longer joining. So you all get to chat with me today, which is a fun, I hope, a fun experience for you all. But I will pass it off to Chad first to introduce yourself. Tell us about your background. Tell us about one thing in your personal life that you were excited for it and then David, we'll kick it on over to you.
Chad Fisher 02:03
Alright, thank you. As you mentioned, Chad Fisher, I'm the co founder of an Bom we are Shopify Plus partner and have been oh my gosh, since November 2016. So that will be years. Yeah, coming up. Feels like a lifetime. But it's been it's been a good run. So you know, our agency is really development centric. We are in addition to that we're merchants first both David and I David will get into that a little bit for his spiel, but we've sat in the shoes of of running a Shopify store. But we really see ourselves as like a fractional CTO slash development arm for predominantly Shopify Plus brands are really high growth brands that are you know, in that 500,000 to a million a year mark on the low end all the way up to like 3040 40 Million and above and, you know, our skills, our theme development, we can do migrations, all the like really kind of like sausage making blocking and tackling of running a Shopify store. And that's where we excel and, you know, things that I'm most excited about this selfishly, for myself. It's being able to run I hurt my leg like a few months ago, and it's been a barely I can make like a mile, mile and a half. And I'm like getting super aggravated. It's the joys of getting old and not being able to do the things where like, it's easy, and now I'm like, What the heck can't even run so. Yeah,
Mariah Parsons 03:28
well, I hope that journey is quicker rather than
David Stober 03:34
just kind of will do as it was, as it was snowing in Seattle yesterday. Yeah, so we had some good running weather
Chad Fisher 03:42
this year. I have it right. If it was summer, I'd be like really going crazy. But thankfully it's it's winter. Yeah,
Mariah Parsons 03:48
totally understandable. I was a collegiate rower. And so the it's not lost on me though. difference that weather plays in wanting to just get outside and like joints and all that jazz. It just does feel different. So yeah. Okay. Wonderful. Thank you, Chad. David, I'll kick it on over to you next.
David Stober 04:06
Hello, David Stover Chief Operating Officer, I guess, have an balm and wear of many hats. I'll save you the entire story because it's a little bit disjointed and a little bit disparate. But I kind of started off my journey in the Shopify ecosystem as a merchant. So all the way back in 2013, I migrated my Magento store to this new enterprise platform called Shopify Plus. I don't know exactly what brand I was on the platform, but I've heard kind of top 50. So it's been a long road to hoe and certainly when I got on board there were there weren't really any developers or agencies per se. So fast forward to 2016 and I believe Chad, I was the first embalm agency so Chad and I have a lot on working relationship, we actually have known each other since elementary school and kind of rekindled the friendship and the professional aspect of that, by me needing the developer in the Shopify ecosystem and and sure enough, embalm and Chad were there as newly anointed Shopify. Shopify Plus agency partner. So spent the next four or five years running a kind of a small form print and packaging company online. Subsequently ended that and exited that in 2019. And Chad and I realigned, again said, cabbie got all this combined scar tissue on the merchant side. And, you know, we kind of know what brands are thinking and feeling and fears and happiness, joys and we felt at all and thought that, you know, combining efforts and joining and bomb was was a good, good setup. And that would be, you know, provide a lot of context and color for the brands that we work with. So today, I spend half my time talking to really cool brands trying to align and figure out solutions kind of get into the weeds from a pm perspective on the solution side, and, and it just comes from, you know, having 10 years in the Shopify ecosystem. So we think we're a little bit unique in the fact that we kind of have that context have that merchant first experience. Building, the Cadillac always isn't the right answer. And kind of incrementally getting better and kind of phasing things out a couple years, depending upon wherever the brands at in their lifecycle. We think we're a little bit unique in that kind of sounds like a self licking ice cream cone, but we think we're a little bit unique in the ecosystem. So we're excited to have the chat.
Mariah Parsons 06:49
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I always like when we have someone who has been in the Shopify ecosystem for a little bit longer, like the earliest days of Shopify, it's always interesting. For me, who's joined the ecosystem. You know, when it's been the leader, right, it has its own entire, like its own entire network, what was it like with around what did you say? When what year? Was it?
David Stober 07:14
2000? Late 2013 13.
Mariah Parsons 07:17
Okay. Um, yeah, what was it like in the ecosystem? At that point? I know, you were hopping from Magento to Shopify. What kind of triggered that for you, David, to bring like this.
David Stober 07:30
Yeah, you know, I think the the story is still holds today, right. And Shopify would probably probably want to hear me saying this, but at the end of the day, it's about playing offense rather than defense. And when, when, when you're a Magento store, you wake up and you're like, Oh, God, I hope my stores up and something's not busted, and you're spending all this money on, which there are a ton of Shopify apps that don't break the bank, on playing defense. Whereas on Shopify, it's kind of like, you spend all your time thinking about the brand, thinking about how you're going to grow, thinking about how you're going to engage with your customers. So it's just, you know, to use that sports analogy, it really is playing offense. From an ecosystem perspective, there really was no ecosystem. It's probably why we were paying 99 bucks a month for Shopify Plus going all the way back then. But it's been a really interesting kind of experience to watch it grow and develop and, you know, have great apps and partners like Malomo kind of pop up and, and fit really specific requirements that, you know, brand owners and merchants just want to kind of solve for so it's, it's been a, it's been a fun ride.
Mariah Parsons 08:36
Yep. I love it. And then Chad, what would you say seeing like from the agency side? What Shopify was like, almost eight, eight ish years ago.
Chad Fisher 08:45
Yeah, it's been a quite a journey. I think back to they used to have, they don't literally have this concept, but they had Shopify unite, which was a partner developer conference. And so start all the way back in San Francisco, and they moved some of them to Toronto, it's kind of a shame, they don't have it. You know, the pandemic, and COVID kind of knocked it out. And I'd like to see him get back to it. But it was, those initial conferences were kind of what gelled the sort of like the three entities of Shopify developer team, the Shopify app ecosystem, and then agencies like us. And so to be there really early, was fantastic. Because you got to learn about all the new apps, you got to learn what's happening in the inside of Shopify. And so, you know, the growth of Shopify because initially with plots, kind of like David was saying, when you're a plus merchants, the features were pretty limited early on, like it was a beta product. I mean, there wasn't, you know, there was the delta of what Shopify core was, but then there was only so much more that they could offer on plus. And then as you know, she doesn't have to do as an 18 came along. They just dealt with like the flood of Magento and so many other platforms that were kind of moving. They were kind of failing and In a sense, and they were people were moving over to Shopify. And so there was crazy growth early like it was just like it was a flood of Shopify was trying to execute. And then all these other platforms were kind of having mistake mistakes that were causing a ton of people for merchants to move over. And so it was exciting. Like it is still, it's like now it's a little bit different, where it's not like there's a flood of other frankly, a lot of people like yourself, and everybody they all know about Shopify, like they've heard about Shopify is kind of the de facto leader in the space. So now, what's been what I find really exciting is the pace of development that Toby and the team, especially since Shopify editions launched, you know, with the new Winter edition just coming out, there's so much that's happening, that it just gives us a ton of energy as an agency, because we can talk to our merchants about hey, here's things that we think it will be a valuable value to you, and will help improve your storage performance. Yeah,
Mariah Parsons 10:56
I love it. And I've also thought of it as because Shopify is able to enable so many people to get their product off the ground without you know, having all these you know, these barricades or hurdles that you have to get over the flood is probably less so from people switching over to just more people creating more more brands and like a flood of just new ideas, and people will be able to see like, Okay, this is the growth that you can have within, you know, your own small team, instead of having to have maybe a more traditional team where you have to find a bunch of talent before you can kind of get sales and revenue generated. So with that, I realized I said eight years as well, but quick math 10 years that you all have been in the ecosystem, I know that we need ecosystem series episodes, want to dive into the tactical side of things and want to talk about strategy. So what all would you like to share with our listeners today, we'd love to hear kind of the expertise that you would like to impart and like, dive into the tactical side of things, because it's always so much fun.
Chad Fisher 12:04
Dave, you want to start?
David Stober 12:08
Yeah, you know, mine is gonna be less about kind of the, the real specifics in terms of the Shopify stack, and more about the brands, right. Like, I just think it's so fascinating that you know, in today's climate, you can napkin an idea and kind of launch with some level of a product, I mean, assuming the product or the widget, or whatever you're selling is there, you know, you can go from zero to 60, and nothing flat and have a real brand. Right? So, you know, that might be scary for some other agencies where you're going, you know, are we getting marginalized? Right? Whereas, you know, our kind of core business is really like, look, Shopify is a fantastic platform that we're, that we're all like living in right now and kind of ecosystem, but at the end of the day, it's a tool, right? And I don't want to minimize it. But it is a tool at the end of the day, the brand has to be a brand. And there's now a growing number of things that are starting to touch this tool, because the tool itself is getting so robust, whereas that's what, you know, we take comfort in more and more things are touching Shopify every single day. So if you think about our core specialty, it's, again, it's you know, fractional CTO, its back end its front end, right? And then I want to marginalize, and basically say that front end development is a commodity, because it certainly isn't. But with this increasing number of things on the backend that are touching Shopify, that's just, you know, it's job security, it's agency security. It's, you know, a long runway of things. And I think, for me, what gets me going every single day is more and more things are touching this. So it really is leveraging our kind of business set, right. And our ability to kind of put our Merchant hat on and say, if I was this merchant, and I was either raising money today, or I was optimizing for top line growth, or optimizing for, you know, bottom line profitability, depending upon where I am in my brand curve, you know, kind of putting that hat on and saying, This is what I would do, right? Like, this is how I would attack this, and maybe I wouldn't build this, I go buy this off the shelf, kind of run with this for three or, you know, three months, six months a year, because I don't want to incur the development debt. We we approach those in a very comfortable position where we can actually do that without basically saying, Hey, we just kind of want to charge you for as much as we can charge you. And it's kind of a long, roundabout answer. But I think all those things touching Shopify is what gets me going because increasingly more and more that's going to be the case, you know, whether it's like financial instruments, whether it's banking, whether it's inventory systems, whether it's, you know, CSR and kind of online offline kind of experiences for brands. Brand owners have to know what their customer experience is like online. Those are the things that kind of excite me. And I think that we can leverage our kind of backgrounds for. Yeah,
Mariah Parsons 15:14
wonderful. So quick question that I want to double tap on, just because you mentioned someone taking inventory of like, where on the brand curve they are, it's something that we don't talk about a ton on this podcast. So for our listeners, can you kind of explain that a little bit more in depth of why someone would want to kind of take that into account just considering what they're doing with their company?
David Stober 15:37
Yeah, I'll throw my two cents. I mean, you know, kind of depends on the business and how happy you are. And if you're a brand owner, you can hack together and run a five to $10 million business by yourself on Shopify, right, like, that's the exciting part. Granted, you might butt up against some ceilings, and you might kind of have to evaluate your opportunity cost of doing that. And I can certainly put myself in those shoes when I was running my brand, right. So you know, I kind of look at it through the lens of, you know, zero to a million as you can kind of to prefer All right, your this, gotta get in the game. Do whatever you can do kind of hack it together. Sometimes, if you're funded, you can get engaged with somebody like us a little bit earlier. Potentially, that can last but you know, when you start getting to the two to five, kind of like, whenever you're assessing being on Shopify Plus, that's when you know, we kind of become very, very relevant. So from a brand perspective, I don't think there's any one answer being Shopify core Shopify Plus, whether you have an agency, whether you don't have an agency, there's no, there's no silver bullet for that. I mean, it's going to be brand specific. I don't know, Chad, if you have any other anything else to add to that?
Chad Fisher 16:56
No, not to that. I'm going to I'm going to play off what you said there. You should just transition into it now. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. So so this, you know, when I sit back and think about, and I know, you were kind of asking about, like, tactically, I don't know what kind of advice for merchants. But really, what I like to think about is where Shopify is headed like directionally, like what are they doing? And, you know, as I kind of said earlier, with Shopify additions, you know, the pace of development, that over that six month cadence, it's just brought such a professionalism to the organization. And it's something that's given I think, just, like I said, selfishly, for US agencies, a lot of energy, you know, apps like for you guys like Malomo, there's so many things that you guys are doing, I'm sure that you have to kind of think about where they're headed and like, how are you going to play with, you know, think about like checkout extensibility, and like this whole script deprecation and functions taking over. And there's so much around the checkout, that's going to be just absolutely shaken up. But when I when I really zoom up, you know aways and I think about okay, well, what, what's Shopify really doing? One, they're going up market, like, they're really looking at enterprise. I mean, they, you know, they, as you kind of mentioned earlier, Mariah, like, you can get started, as David talked about, like, it's super easy to just get going and like, throw a website up, and you could get, frankly, 200, a couple 100,000 in sales in months, if you really are dedicated and have the right, you know, kind of product market fit. But what's the beauty of it is that Shopify is now starting to cater to like that 50 million 100,000,200 million and up crowd. And it started with hydrogen, oxygen, headless, giving them an opportunity to, you know, here's a platform from a speed perspective. But what we're really, you know, it continues to evolve is in the b2b space, like, that's where I get really excited, because I think there's a lot of merchants and I know a lot of merchants that we deal with that are D to C only. But there's plenty of them that have talked to us and be like, Hey, we really would love to set up, you know, companies, tiered pricing, like all these different, like fundamental b2b functions that Shopify didn't really have a great answer for, you could kind of like hack it together with apps. And you could do there now deprecated Shopify wholesale channel, but with the whole b2b admin functionality, it's just it really gives this space for brands to kind of branch out and start to consolidate all of their energy around Trump plan. And as David mentioned, you know, we are professionals and fractional CTOs or Shopify is kind of like the hub. And there's lots of stuff that spokes out, like whether it's an ERP, or you've got other custom software or three pl You need to connect to, but Shopify is thinking about that. The bigger companies have a complex stack, and they need that composability. And so I think that's a that's where, you know, I don't know that that's a great tactical kind of, like, piece of advice for brands, but I just more see it is like idealistically, where shoppers headed and that's what I think is really neat. from an agency perspective and from merchant perspective as well. Yeah.
Mariah Parsons 19:59
For sure. So really interesting way of looking at, I guess, the timeline of Shopify and like their announcements, and then also trying for a merchant trying to, I guess stack or trying to overlay you're trying to plan like best that they can. So with that, with keeping what Shopify is starting to march towards, are you approaching, like when you're working with the brands that you work with? Are you seeing merchants? Taking the stance of like, okay, I'm aware of it, but I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing, or is it like part of their, I guess, overall company strategy of like, we know that now Shopify has rolled out this capabilities to like, is that a new Northstar? Is does that mean does that question, you
Chad Fisher 20:49
know, I think I understand what your implied questionnaire is, and it's buying and large, our merchants will hear about things that are happening to Shopify, but they do not have near that level of granular, like, level of understanding, and it's okay. I mean, that's what our role is like, as a fractional CTO, I mean, we're there to provide guidance and advice. So there are some circumstances where they're coming to us, and they're saying, hey, we need but in many cases, we're advising them and say, Hey, by the way, like, take the checkout upgrade, like as a huge thing that's happening this summer. And it's a big deal for a lot of our merchants. And so we have to plan and work backwards and think about all the apps that are leveraging checkout, and what are the you know, they have scripts that have customizations that are done, the checkout process that we need to upgrade? So I'd say the majority of that is us coming to them and being their trusted advisor, and, but there are some some of our brands that are there on it. You
David Stober 21:44
know, I think another point is that, to your point, it, it does give us a little bit of a true, true north kind of star where we're guessing a lot less where historically, you know, like to Chad's point b2b was a big thing. Like you're, you're hacking together systems that don't, that shouldn't be hacked together on Shopify. And in some cases, you did that for such a long period of time. And then all of a sudden Shopify drops all these announcements. So we were guessing now, there's a lot less of that with additions. So we know areas that we need to tread lightly. And kind of think about this through this buy versus rent versus build, you know, all these different decisions. So we don't kind of boxed ourselves into a corner where we're going to build something and incur a bunch of development debt on on behalf of the brand. And then all of a sudden, Shopify is going to drop some like boom, like b2b kind of situation, like what Chad was was talking about. And, you know, and for us, it's it's increasingly more relevant because, you know, a good chunk of our business Yeah, we we have our fair share of high flying sex ed, DTC brands. But by and large, the brands that pay our bills are a lot of like, very complex back in b2b, on the sausage making, what Shopify might consider to be legacy businesses, parts, businesses, and such. So, for us, it's really important because we care, maybe a little bit more about the back end plumbing than other brands do. Excuse me, other agencies do.
Mariah Parsons 23:18
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So with that, have you seen any patterns emerging of like certain areas in the customer experience that you would say to a merchant of like, you should definitely have this in house versus you can have like an app, kind of supplement into your Shopify store? And like, cover that has there been any delineation of like, okay, you always want to have, like, let's take post purchase experience with what Malomo does, right? Like, you always want to have that be of this standard, or because a lot of the things that we like there's a Shopify out of the box experience with post purchase that I'm sure you all are aware of, but then there's also the the added benefit of having something like Malomo that you get the control back from the Shopify out of the box, you know, like non branded strictly transactional information, crucial information that a merchant needs. Sharing a transparent story with a brand's customers is so important in ecommerce. So is there anything that you're seeing that you're advising brands of, okay, like this is like I guess table stakes around what you can and should dedicate a lot of your of their time and energy towards when you're looking at okay, like this is the bet to make when maybe Shopify is going to build something out here make the out of the box, quote unquote, experience better for Shopify Plus brands or anything of that sort.
Chad Fisher 24:43
Let me I'll start David on this one. So, you know, philosophically how we look at the different functions in Shopify, and by that I think of it in terms of like, you can kind of carve up all the different processes around the trend. A transaction online and to get like subprocesses. So some of those, like if I work backwards, like what Malomo does anything about like post purchase, you know, check out any of checkout. And I know this is a funky way to look at it, but like card, collection page product detail, and then homepage, I know I went absolutely backwards through that process. But if you think about it, then you've got lots of things that kind of connect off that whether it's like inventory, or subscriptions, or transactional emails or marketing emails. So the point of all that is to say that philosophically, if there's anything in that funnel, or in a process that touches that funnel, we're going to tell our merchants, hey, if there's an app that handles that, we're not going to build a custom for you, because the app is going to be putting so much energy into updating it. For instance, a lot of brands go to an agency for paid media, without researching if there are Shopify apps that can do that for you. And it's not you don't want to pay us to do that work. Like it's kind of crazy. And, you know, Shopify in there, you know, what they've started to do is, you know, it's kind of like they're kind of frenemies with the apps, right? They've got their own, you know, recharge deals with this with subscriptions, they've got their own subscription, Clay do deals with it with email, you guys deal with it with shop buys. So every one of them has that kind of concept. The way David and I and frankly, Ambani we we see it is it Shopify is version is like the vanilla starter package like you it's like the gateway drug, right? You can try it, maybe like it. And then like you should graduate, right? Like, let's get let's get into the, you know, the apps that are really going to give you the power to give you you know, the sales and generate the revenue that you need. So that's, and then often above and beyond that, we can do some customizations. And that's where we kind of come in, but if there's an app or Shopify can handle it, that's, we want that to be the case. Yep,
David Stober 26:45
I use for I use sports, and Chad uses drugs.
26:50
We love all the analogies here. So we welcome all equal opportunity employers. Yeah, there you go. Yeah.
David Stober 26:55
You know, you know, I think Chad touched on something that's kind of important, it's kind of at high leverage versus low leverage. And I'm not saying post purchase. And some of these things are a little beverage, but things where you're constantly iterating and testing and changing. That should be done by the brand, right? Like the brand should own that the brand should test it, it should be easy enough for the brand to manage, you know, certainly from a development perspective, we may or may not need to snap in and do some custom, like landing pages for for Malomo. And, and kind of lean into that. But at the end of the day, there's a, there's a there's a healthy amount of responsibilities that need to lie with the brand, because they own it, right. And there's things that should lie with us, because it's infrastructure and building the foundation. So that's, I mean, that's another way to kind of evaluate it as in terms of high leverage and low leverage. And, you know, we're in the business of charging for high leverage, not PM, not administrative stuff, high leverage, nasty Cheb cookies and Red Bull under the door and someone pounding on on a keyboard for five hours building really crazy shit, right? Like, that's, that's the cool stuff.
Mariah Parsons 28:11
Yeah, I love that analogy of the high leverage of low leverage and trying to differentiate it there. Because I think a lot of the times when we're talking about like a tech stack, like table stakes, what's your what your tech stack should be comprised of, but thinking about it or thinking through the lens of what do you want to control from in house to with your agency to then the tech that you're also implementing, I think is a cool way to look at it that we haven't specifically specifically emphasized on this podcast. And is there so for like high leverage versus low leverage? I know like development side of things my mind because I'm in marketing goes to something that you're trying to control and test a lot is like around ads and like anything that's basically like CRO conversion rate optimisation. Is that anything that you will have seen, like patterns with like most brands want control over that are really there, they're willing to outsource it to something else?
David Stober 29:15
All Over the Map? Yeah, right. Like, right. Yeah, it's there's no right answer with that as well. We have some brands that I swear have never even looked in the admin before of Shopify. We have other brands that we spent a lot of time d conflicting, because we're all kind of touching it. And then, you know, we think, I mean, arguably, I would say the brands that we think work the best are the brands that they own. That customer part, the product part, the engagement part, the words part, the brand part, and then they iterate, iterate, iterate, test, test test, and that's laying out your guys's product is A great example of, you know, kinking some little words on the landing pages or introducing, you know, upsell opportunities and surfacing some of those with, say ribeye or, or kind of getting really crazy, like those, finding those little kind of green fields of like awesomeness when you said the right word, the right image, like, that's magical. And that's not us. That's, that's your brand. That's the brand. That's, that's, that's the the merchants brand to own. We just want to provide the infrastructure, the proper infrastructure, so they can go execute and go as crazy as they want to go. Like, set another way. Yep,
Mariah Parsons 30:39
I love that. I think that's a great note to wrap it up on it seems like this 30 minutes has flown by, but I want to give our listeners if they either whether they're a merchant that could possibly be just starting their brand and looking to have some help, or a merchant that is in dire need at this exact moment. Can you let our listeners know where they can find you, so that they can reach out to the M bomb team and, and discuss things with both of you.
Chad Fisher 31:13
You obviously amazon.com is the great, great place to start. We've got a forum there. We're on LinkedIn, three of us are pretty active there. I mean, those are probably the two biggest channels.
David Stober 31:25
I mean, we're at the all the events like shop talk, and yeah, there you go. And all the tech events as well. But you know, where we really began to lean in is actually at the events where the brands are at. So we're, we spent a lot of time at Expo West Expo e Bev net, you know, SEMA parts kind of thing. So our evolution is getting in the weeds, and I can shop with brands and talking about crazy stuff. So that's where we'd like to live.
Mariah Parsons 31:50
Wonderful. Wonderful. Have you found because I know I went to shop talk last year. I'm gonna pose the question, even though I just started wrapping us up. But in terms of events, like merchants, I know that's something that, like you said, before, pre pandemic, maybe there's more attendance on the merchant side, but what events are you specifically finding that brands are going to and engaging with a ton? Because I know if shopped can like etail. But it's always I always love to hear the opinion of
David Stober 32:19
not those probably more at the at the industry level. Right. Yeah. Chad. I mean, it's, you know, that's what we've found the greatest success is kind of round cabling with really cool food and bad brands or parts brands or, you know, CPG kind of brands and just comparing stories, comparing notes, we can put our little brand hats on and merchant hats on and say this is what we did way back when which may or may not be relevant anymore. But that's where that's where we tend to find the brands that we we think can benefit from talking to them.
Mariah Parsons 32:52
Yep. I agree with that. That's been my assessment as well. Yeah, the big industry events. Totally different. Were you gonna add something in there chatter much more. But
Chad Fisher 33:00
yeah, I basically just reiterate, you know, the shop talks, ELLs, like those are great from a app to agency relationship perspective, not they're tougher from a finding a, you know, merchant perspective, it's really going to where the merchants live, and that's in the industry specific events.
Mariah Parsons 33:15
Yep. Yep. Wonderful. Well, David and Chad, it has been great to chat with you both. Thank you for making the time excited for this podcast to go live. Our listeners I think are gonna have a fun time listening to this and always do with retention Chronicles. So thank you very much. I've had a blast having you here.
Chad Fisher 33:32
Thanks for hosting us.