S6 E1: Email deliverability in ecommerce with ASPEKT Founder Nikita Vakhrushev


This conversation is centered around email and SMS deliverability in e-commerce, with a focus on understanding technical aspects and predictability of email marketing results. Mariah Parsons. Head of Marketing at Malomo & Host of Retention Chronicles, and Nikita Vakhrushev, Founder of ASPEKT agency, shared their experiences with email marketing and discussed challenges such as recent deliverability rule changes and the importance of conducting audits to identify issues. Nikita added his experience in setting up deliverability audits and emphasized the need for proper technical setup and segmentation of email lists. The group emphasized the importance of prioritizing email deliverability, especially during peak seasons in ecommerce like Black Friday and Cyber Monday (BFCM).

Episode Timestamps:

  • 5:51 Email marketing strategies and deliverability issues

  • 11:28 Email deliverability audit process using Klaviyo

  • 16:07 Email deliverability and segmentation strategies for improved open rates

  • 22:00 Email deliverability and marketing vs. transactional emails

  • 26:32 Email deliverability and technical setup for e-commerce businesses

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This transcript was completed by an automated system, please forgive any grammatical errors.


emails, brands, deliverability, domain, clients, email marketing, campaign, transactional emails, inbox, vo, technical, sending, guess, clay, list, week, google, e commerce, gmail, marketing


Mariah Parsons, Nikita Vakhrushev

Mariah Parsons 00:05

Greetings and welcome to retention Chronicles, the podcast with learnings from expert e commerce brands and partners. I'm your host, Ryan Parsons. If you're here, you're either on a quest for ecommerce enlightenment, or you accidentally clicked the wrong link. Either way, I am thrilled you stumbled into our corner of the internet. And I hope you'll stick around. We've got pearls of wisdom for everyone, whether you're running a multimillion dollar business, or simply just starting out on your entrepreneurial journey. Before we unleash the brilliance of today's guest, let's give a shout out to our podcast sponsor Malomo. Malomo is so much more than just another Shopify app, their post purchase wizards making beautiful and branded order tracking smoother than a jazz solo. So our amazing founders, like our guests can keep their customers happy and up to date while they track their orders. So hit that subscribe button, like it'll increase your LTV overnight, and go listen to her other episodes. Echo malomo.com That's gomalomo.com. Get ready for insights chuckles and perhaps a profound realization or two with this newest episode of retention. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to retention Chronicles. We are joined here today by Nikita, thank you so much for joining us. I am so excited to have you here today. I know we've been emailing back and forth a little bit. So I'm excited that today is finally the day and you are welcoming. You are coming from aspects. So can you tell our listeners first a little bit about yourself, say hello. And then tell us all about how you find yourself in the E commerce community.

Nikita Vakhrushev 01:49

Thank you for the amazing intro Mariah and it's a pleasure to be on. I know we've been trying to get this in the books. I'm glad that we're finally doing it. I'm pretty excited to chat about all things deliverability and spill the beans on all the tech things behind the deliverability and emails. But a little bit about me. So I'm Nikita I'm the CEO and founder of aspect. And we strictly handled shipping notifications (with delivery samples) for ecommerce brands to increase customer retention. And honestly, the thing that landed me in ecommerce is honestly it's just, it was making T shirts in high school. Funny enough, interesting. Okay. Yep, yeah, so I made T shirts in high school. And then a couple years after that, when I was in college, there was a Reddit thread that came up is like how to make money online by selling T shirts without doing any of the filament. I'm like, this is the best of both worlds. I make money as a broke college student. And I don't have to do any of the fulfillment, all I have to do is just do the designs. And that slowly escalated into me doing print on demand T shirts when dropshipping was all the craze in 2016 and 2017. Eventually, people asked me, How do I set up a Shopify store? How do I do a Facebook pixel what's Facebook ads and email marketing. And one by one, I started to help out my friends, family, community, people in Facebook groups, and then people started to pay me. And eventually that was way more fruitful than the ecommerce store because everyone was doing print on demand. Yeah, at that time, so became super saturated. Yeah, yep, exactly. So I moved into the agency space, focusing on all different areas, I didn't know what niche was. So I was just like, Okay, you need help, I'll help you out, you need help, I'll help you out. So I ended up landing an E commerce specifically around early 2020. And that's when I solely focused on E commerce, did all the things like Facebook ads, Google ads, tik, Tok, organic websites, and of course, Shopify email marketing. And then about two to three years ago, we pivoted into just doing email and shipping SMS just to we got really, really stressed by trying to handle five different services for all the different clients. So we're like, okay, let's reduce the stress that we have at work. And let's just focus on one thing. And, you know, we haven't looked back since.

Mariah Parsons 03:54

Okay, I was gonna ask why choosing email marketing, that would be my exact guess of you just don't want to have to, you're very at the whim of all these different platforms and just keeping updated or staying updated with all the different things that they're rolling out, and how, you know, how users are interacting with the platforms, which ones are popular, which ones aren't all that, there's just a lot more, I guess, monitoring, if you want to put it that way of the ad space. So it makes sense emails, your

Nikita Vakhrushev 04:23

checking Facebook, Business Manager at like midnight, sometimes before I went to bed, and I'm like, I kind of don't like doing this, you know, email has a slower feedback loop rather than ads. So that kind of that was one of the decisions. And other than that, it was, we got a lot more like the predictability of results was a lot better than Facebook ads. Reluctantly, you know, six or seven out of 10 clients that we had on the ad side, they would succeed, but I really feel bad about those three out of 10. And it's like, I don't want to have that reputation where like 30% of our clients just don't get results where As we're like email, I'd say we're at, like, 95% success rate. And like that 1% or that 5% was purely from like a client culture fit where the expectations really didn't meet what the client was looking for. So,

Mariah Parsons 05:13

yep, yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And then one one question about when you were kind of in the, in the height of dropshipping. And, you know, creating, creating T shirts, what was Was there anything like, what, what, what made you want to go into that? Basically, if, like, were you designing the shirts, because you always liked design? Were you just seeing it as a revenue? Generator? What? Yeah, what? What drew you in, I guess, to start that, because it definitely became more of a craze. But you were on the, I would say the first the beginning tail end of that. Yeah,

Nikita Vakhrushev 05:51

absolutely. It was, it was more so on the fact that I already had a bunch of designs that I worked on in high school. I think from like freshman to like junior year, I was like, all in on like everything Adobe Creative Suite. Like I knew how to use Lightroom, Photoshop, Illustrator. So I knew a lot of the technicals because I wanted to create merch for myself, I thought it was really cool. I sold, I sold it to other high school classmates that I knew. So it was like, Okay, I've done this before, with no problem. And here, I don't have to make them myself. Because back in the day, I had print class, I make it myself, I'd heat press the shirts, I'd do that. It was crazy. It was it took a lot of time to do it thing, right? Yeah, all that stuff. Okay. So it's like, okay, I can do this. I've done this countless of times, and I don't have to do the fulfillment. It was like a no brainer for me. Especially when you piggyback with there was a I think a new connection at the time was you can connect your Shopify store with Amazon fulfillment, or Amazon Seller Central. So I did that. And that just blew things up, because I get a lot of orders from Amazon that would tie in directly to Shopify. And then the Shopify app, I forgot the name of it that did all the, like the print on demand, for me would take care of everything, like the shipping code, or the tracking codes, the design itself, the customer support, etc. So it was just me doing the design work. Hmm.

Mariah Parsons 07:12

Would you go back into that, like now with how dropshipping is currently in the market? Or do you think there's too much still right now?

Nikita Vakhrushev 07:21

I would say, because back then I was looking at it more so from like, oh, I can make some side money. While you know, I have off hours at college. But I wasn't really business focused or business sense. And that's over the last seven years, that's I like got better at business or trying to figure out margins, profits, etc. Cost of goods sold. So if I were to do it again, I'd probably be a high ticket drop shipping store, it's not out of question. It's just not something I'd want to do or focus on right now. But if I were to do it again, it would be, you know, in a product that's doing like, $300. And up, because the margin, there's a lot more room for margin there.

Mariah Parsons 07:58

Yep. Okay. Makes sense. Thank you for entertaining those questions about your past. So let's dive into email marketing then. So before we get into deliverability, and all that stuff, can you tell us a little bit more about the brands that you're working with? Do you think there's any patterns or trends in terms of when a brand is coming to you? Like, are they just starting out? Are they a little established? Are they on a not entrepreneurial enterprise level? I would say all founders are entrepreneurial, and spirit, but what kind of size? Are there any any groups of brands that come to work with you? Is it really across the board currently?

Nikita Vakhrushev 08:35

Yeah, for the most part, it's across the board. We haven't yet touched enterprise yet or anything in the Inc 500. Or in 5000 things that Hi, the largest brand we've worked with, they were doing about 11 mil a year. So high eight figure or low eight figure range math

Mariah Parsons 08:54

exam at the end of the week. For us. It's too much and a holiday week. Yeah.

Nikita Vakhrushev 08:58

So low eight figure brand. But they were crushing it. And they just needed help with like consultation, because they already had a team in house. But we work with a wide spectrum of clients. We like right now we're doing a build out for a brand new startup. Well, funnily enough in Chicago, they are Yep, they're doing like a THC electrolyte drink. And they just they have no thing set up and they want to get email set up before they start launching paid ads. So like we've worked with them. We're currently working with a brand here in Nashville, that it's that's doing like a midpoint to a year. So it's it ranges and we have service packages to help any different kinds of client. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wasn't able to say the same thing last year because we didn't have the like the low ticket service built out. But now we can cover the entire like spectrum of of email clients.

Mariah Parsons 09:50

Okay, awesome. And then. So have you found that there's what's all what are they currently trying to solve for? Is it open rates like Just trying to maximize emails is actually building out like drip campaigns or thinking through just like a whole new, I guess, email marketing campaign or strategy? Or is it like tweaking? What kind of level of services are they? Are they coming to you for? Yeah,

Nikita Vakhrushev 10:19

that's a fantastic question. Typically, they need a lot of re strategy on the flow side and the automation side of things. For the most part, anybody can create a campaign if they no good decent design skills. So that's never really a problem. A lot of the times they come in and we recreate their flows or re strategize it in a way where it's going to generate them a lot more money. And they don't really have to worry about constantly keeping up with it. We still do AV tests for them. But it's not something that they have to touch, you know, they only have to worry about a campaign launch calendar, they don't have to worry about the seventh email in a welcome flow, for example, you know, what's that going to look like? But more recently, over the last two, two to three months, a lot more customers, or a lot more clients have been coming on coming to us for more advice on the deliverability side. A lot of them are seeing lower open rates, lower click through rates, low revenue, of course. So they're just like, Okay, how do we improve this? And, you know, looking at the back end of the account, it's like, well, there's five things clearly showing us that that needs to be improved here. So we've been handling that as well.

Mariah Parsons 11:28

Okay, wonderful. I think that's a great stepping stone to head into that conversation around email deliverability. Because I know it's top of mind for everyone and not being a on the agency side, or on the brand side, just hearing, you know, through the brands that we work with. And through this podcast, it is definitely top of mind, everyone seems to be making content about it. So I view at the same, I guess, scale of AI where everyone's super tuned in. But everyone's kind of, I guess wading through the water of just like, oh, we find this little thing and take it and then we find this little thing and take it because it can be terrifying to try and redo everything that you've built out, built up over X amount of time. So can you I guess water it down in the simplest way possible, how you're how you're first? What is the word I'm looking for? I'm not an admin, a consult, like a service step. Yes. Yeah, first step, audit. That's the word. I was like, not auditory. It was so close. So can you walk us through kind of like the audit of what you're looking at first, the first step and then go through the whole process when you're looking at someone's email marketing?

Nikita Vakhrushev 12:42

Is this in regards to just deliverability? Yep,

Mariah Parsons 12:46

yeah, yeah, just for deliverability. Unless you want to make it broader go through all those steps. But that could we could be sitting here for like hours on end. So yeah, I

Nikita Vakhrushev 12:56

know, we both have things to do after the podcast for three hours on. When it comes to just deliverability. The biggest thing we want to look at is the most recent campaigns being sent. That's usually like the first, like leading indicator for us to see whether or not things are going well, things are not going well, using Klaviyo. Specifically, in this example, if you look at your recent campaign, and it's like, okay, my open rates, on average, maybe two months ago, were about like 30 40%. And the most recent email I sent out was like 20%, what's going on? Then we go through that specific campaign, and there's a deliverability tab. I think it's on the top right of the screen, you click it, and you can see your inbox provider performance. So for example, with Gmail, Yahoo, Verizon Media Group, iCloud, Outlook, all like, if you have a list of over 10,000 people, you have a huge variety of different email addresses and inbox providers. So here we can see, okay, most of our emails are being sent out to Gmail users, so maybe like 50%. And then you can scroll down, you can see the open rates per inbox user. So you can see, oh, Gmail, only 5% of people opened up Gmail. But half of our list is Gmail that makes sense on why our emails aren't being delivered correctly, because, you know, Gmail is blocking a lot of your emails from coming into people's inbox. And it's been more of a prevalent issue over the last three to four months since Google and Yahoo implemented their new changes for sender requirements. And a lot of brands just came unprepared. Pants down, and they just switched over to their like, dedicated sending domain not realizing that maybe their domain just had poor reputation quality, based off of maybe previous emails that they have sent or maybe unengaged audiences that they're sending to. Hmm,

Mariah Parsons 14:46

okay, okay. So you mentioned so the, where you can see the inbox providers that's in clay vo you're saying, Yep. Right. You just click

Nikita Vakhrushev 14:54

campaigns, and then there's a deliverability tab at the top right. You can click and you can see all that data. Okay.

Mariah Parsons 14:59

Wonderful. I'm sorry those who are in clay vo know exactly what you're talking about so, but if someone doesn't use clay vo do you work with only only brands who are using clay vo

Nikita Vakhrushev 15:10

that's about 90% of our client base are on clay via we have a few clients on sand lane. We also have a few clients that are on Active Campaign in MailChimp. So we work across the whole gambit is just clay Vo is able to give us a lot more data and more reporting about the specific deliverability of the of the email of that specific email. It's a little bit harder to see that information through active campaign or MailChimp or its If anything, it's just harder to navigate. And it's just easier to use clay VO as an example because most ecommerce brands run off clay vo Yep,

Mariah Parsons 15:43

yeah, most do. I think ours is probably. Yeah, I think since being in this market I've just seen right clay vo most most choose clay vo to work with so. So a brand has their then they they look at their campaign, their most recent campaign, they compare it to a couple months back see that there's a difference in the open rate and the deliverability. So what do you how do you then look at? How do you then take that information and then implement like a strategy in terms of fixing that?

Nikita Vakhrushev 16:18

Yeah, there is a lot that goes into it. One of the first things that we start off by doing is there's a tool that Google has developed called postmaster.google.com. It's been around for ages, it's free to use as long as you have a Google account, which pretty much everyone does. And what you do is you add your domain or your sending domain to Google postmaster, it's pretty simple to do, all you do is just put a verification tag from Google into your domain. Like where your domain is being hosted to verify that you own that domain. Once you have it hooked up, Google will spit out a report as you start sending out campaigns of how good your spam reputation is how good your domain reputation is, if your emails are authenticated properly, all the technical bits that go into the deliverability side. And without boring you too much. The main thing you want to look for is the domain reputation. And there's four different levels there's poor, low, medium, and high. Obviously poor as you don't want to be there. Stay away from that means your domain is not being trusted by Google. Ideally, we want to be at high or medium. We usually have clients bounce between high and medium. But that's a really sweet, sweet spot. And that is kind of like a barometer. For every time we do send out campaigns whether or not Google is seeing improvement in our domain reputation or whether or not, we have to make some changes within the content that we're sending out. After we've installed that as like a tracker, we then go into the segmentation planning. So one of the things that we do is, for example, or in the previous example, we have a list of 10,000 people 5000 of them are Gmail users, and only 5% of people are opening up that email. So one thing that we can start by doing is fully segment out all Gmail users from all future campaigns, except for that 5% That opened. So we know that if those 5% are opening, that means that email is getting delivered to those 5%. And then we slowly start to send out about like one to two emails a week to that 5% And then slowly expand that out to the last 10%. Last 1520 3040 50 until we get back to the master list. And this process takes about anywhere between six to eight weeks of just working on segments creating new segments, expanding out that pool of Gmail users in this example. And if things aren't going to plan or if you know, we go, we bump it up to 40%. And we're still having trouble, well then maybe dial it back to 35% for a couple cents until we see improved open rates, and then we open it back up to like 40 5060, etc.

Mariah Parsons 18:55

Okay, that's really interesting. So the notion that you kind of have to, I guess, like slice your email list by such a big amount. I mean, this is just one example, right? Of like, 5%. I'm sure. You know, when you actually look at the numbers, maybe it isn't that drastic. But is there any resistance in terms of brands seeing like, oh my god, we're only going to be able to send X amount of like, X amount of emails to X percentage of our email list. And then that'll impact revenue and brand awareness and all the stuff that they're quote unquote, used to having with email marketing, or is there kind of a mutual understanding of like, if you don't do this now, whatever, two months later, you might not even have those 5% of emails to market to what's kind of like the reaction of a brand when they see okay, these emails actually aren't being sent even though you know, you thought they were being delivered. Yeah, it's

Nikita Vakhrushev 19:58

a hit or miss on us. The sometimes they're like we get it do what you got to do. We're here for your support, or like, if you need anything from like the tech technical side or the development side, let us know. And then you have on the other hand, it's like why, like, can we have this list of people? Why can't we send it to? Like, why can't we send them this email? We we did it before? Why can't we do it now? And then we have to go through the whole conversation of like, look, you know, this is a short term gain. Long term, you're gonna burn through your list. And sometimes we've even seen this with plenty of brands that we've audited and chose not to work with us. Could I still have access to their clavey account I snooped around a little bit? I'm not just yeah, like, for example, they would have problems with delivering to like Yahoo. addresses, right. And it's like, okay, cool, we can get you back on a deliverability rehabilitation plan to get you back on Yahoo. But the fact that Yahoo like they burn through like the Yahoo list, now, Gmail, now Verizon, and now I am not able to use a well, like iCloud, all of those other inbox providers,

Mariah Parsons 21:04

you probably use AOL, and you're doing your drop shipping.

Nikita Vakhrushev 21:08

That's true. But like all these other inbox, providers are starting to catch on to the emails that they're sending. So eventually, the entire list could be gone within the next six months. So we have to paint that picture of like, hey, we have to do this for the next six to eight weeks to get you back up to where you were at. And this is just the current reality. It's kind of like the conversation I had to have with a lot of brands during iOS 14, when that dropped, and it was not a fun conversation. But that was the reality. You know, like, the reality is, like, if you want to have email be its own revenue channel, you have to make sure that all your emails are getting delivered to the people that you have, in an order for it. To do this, we have to take this 68 week, pause, not pause, but we're still sending emails out, but almost like a timeout to get you back up to where you're at. Otherwise, you're gonna burn through your list in the next six to 12 months. And, you know, q4 of 2025 comes out and you know, you're not gonna have a good season, then.

Mariah Parsons 22:00

Yep, yep. So is it fair to say, then, if someone who gets to that point where they are, they've burned through their list? Is it? Am I correct in assuming that the other, the only other thing that they can do is just build up their list again, and get new emails? Right,

Nikita Vakhrushev 22:18

there's other ways you can go around it, that's probably the most like nuclear case scenario, the other things you could do is just get a new domain, get a new email address set up on that new domain. And that six to eight week long process has to be done again, but at a much smaller scale. So we would have to warm up the audience to a brand new domain, which sometimes is quicker, but you know, you don't want to get to that point of like, okay, my entire list is burned. Now we have to buy a new domain, now we have to go through this entire setup process of all emails are going through this new domain, and go into that warm up process. Again, you're gonna have to go through the six to eight weeks, regardless of what you do, essentially. Okay,

Mariah Parsons 23:01

I like I like looking at it that way. If like, whenever you decide to take those six, eight weeks, it's gonna happen. It's kind of inevitable, just based off the changes, I think that would probably help. Come to terms with like, the new rules are kind of the right, they're here to say, and they're gonna affecting your emails, whether or not you want that to happen. So it's, it's just dependent on when you take those six to eight weeks. Do you think with so in E commerce, obviously, Black Friday, Cyber Monday is our huge, huge season. So do you think that there has been kind of a rush to get this all figured out and amped up before the holiday season? Or do you think a lot of people are going to kind of realize, in q4, you know, end of q3 that Oh, my God, this might be a different Black Friday compared to previous years because of the deliverability. Because of the changes in deliverability rules,

Nikita Vakhrushev 24:01

that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to, we're trying to fix this. And for some of the clients that we do have that we we brought on that are having deliverability issues, we're trying to get this all patched up before September, October comes around, because then at that point, you're going to be sending a lot more emails, and then November is pure chaos at that point. So we definitely want to get this fixed beforehand. And if you are in that position of needing to get it fixed, I'd recommend looking into it ASAP, because you don't want to be caught with your pants down during q4. And if you are, you know, kind of like pushing this off, like I'm almost confident we're gonna have like a couple books calls come through in like late October, where they're like, Hey, can you fix this before we do Black Friday and it's like, Where were you three months ago? So for those brands that are ignoring it, they are going to have a rude awakening during q4 and worst case, they're going to sign on q1 for for any email agency to help fix the deliverability side of things. For them, yep.

Mariah Parsons 25:00

Okay, so I want to take these last couple of minutes to just talk through the differences that you're seeing with marketing and transactional purchase emails in the post-purchase experience. Because, obviously, right, like deliverability is not as, I guess, heavily weighted for transactional emails. But I would love to know how I think we've been mostly talking about right, like those marketing, right, trying to use emails for revenue generation, but any and all rules that you're kind of differentiating on the deliverability side for transactional and marketing emails of, you know, just checking your transactional emails, making sure that they're, you know, up to code up to standard would be great.

Nikita Vakhrushev 25:45

Yeah, absolutely. And we haven't really had any deliverability issues with transactional emails specifically, which thank God like, I don't want to like that's a whole, like if that if it's gotten that bad, yeah, it's, we got to do something here. At that point, you have to buy a new domain. But when it comes down to it, we do make sure to only keep it to the information that we need, we try to avoid doing too much marketing material. And obviously, that's where you guys come in, is to maximize that, at least on the tracking page, not on the email, specifically, I think the most we've ever done on the email that we've were able to get away with is having like a, like an Instagram, at the bottom footer. But yeah, again, that's it, that's, you can't really do much after that. Otherwise, you can't really have that same status of it being a transactional email rather than a marketing material or marketing email. Yeah,

Mariah Parsons 26:40

yeah. Okay, that was exactly my assumption of, because we don't, you know, we obviously know, a lot of the brains that we're working with are concerned just in overall about email marketing, but because we're in the transactional realm is just not as big of a priority when it comes to what we're talking to brands about. So it's always fascinating to kind of see, you know, how people are approaching transactional emails versus marketing emails, I think it's a, I don't want to say Nisha, or like, just more, something that you don't pay attention to, or that you might not know, until you're actually in the thick of it. And you have to wade through of like, okay, these are the laws actually are around transactional emails, and they're pretty serious. And so, marketing emails, I want to always make that distinction that, you know, you have a lot more freedom, I guess, with marketing emails. So it tends to help when looking through and thinking through creative ways to spice up your email so that you're getting a better open rate. But then also the technical side of emails, because we've, we've had a lot of the more creative strategy plays that you can put in for emails to like, try and engage customers, but the back end of, of email marketing is something that I know this discussion around deliverability is brought to the spotlight, but it has not always been that way. So a lot of the times it's trying to adjust creative and AV tests and all that stuff. But making sure that you know, your emails are set up properly to also, quote unquote, have like the settings right, right to make sure that they're delivering is is very fascinating.

Nikita Vakhrushev 28:30

Yeah, the emails not only have to look good, but they also have to be on like, there's a code that goes down for everything. Like, even if you're running political ads on Facebook, you have to clarify that. And that's like a technical part of it. And it's, it's kind of funny, you brought that up, because I remember having a conversation I think, like 2018 was like a an email client that I brought on. And I'm like, Do you have any of these? Like, do you have your SPF record set up your DK and I was just, acronyms are four days just trying to

Mariah Parsons 28:59

we love them in E commerce, right in any industry, but But it's like super

Nikita Vakhrushev 29:03

technical, geeky things that you have to go through, like the host, or like your domain host and go through all that. And like, What are you talking about? We're just sending emails to clay VO. And I'm like, what you kind of need to have the setup. Otherwise, you're, you're messed up on on the deliverability. side. And eventually, I did go ahead and set that up for them. But they just had no clue what was going on. I'm sure. You know, this year, maybe it's a little bit different. And hopefully they know what's going on the deliverability side. But yeah, there's probably a lot of people in the E commerce space that are just like, Yeah, sure. I mean, that's what's happening. But you know, when

Mariah Parsons 29:36

well and that's a great thing of, you know, all these different players in the software space. It makes it so easy, right to like, yeah, kind of skirt around the technical side of things, I guess of like, just plug and play. And it makes it so that, you know, you might not have to know the technical side of things, which is great because accessibility is so much more wider than if you didn't have that, right like even Shopify, what kind of sparked this whole different ecosystem system is exactly that they make it so easy that you don't really have to know, like some of the hard code or the technical jargon or side of things, but for things like this one, it's a switch in the ecosystem, and it's going to have a huge ripple effect, then you are very much forced to understand everything that you you know, that you're going to be dealing with and how to fix it and how to make sure that it's that it's all good. So yeah, it's very interesting. I, I admit, this is fascinating, just from a knowledge standpoint, and then also, email marketing standpoint. So I imagine our listeners are going to enjoy this episode a lot. So thank you, Nikita, for taking the time to share with us today. I know. It has been a couple of couple of, you know, planning sessions, whatnot, couple of emails back and forth. And it's been very well worth it. So I think yeah,

Nikita Vakhrushev 31:02

yeah, it was a pleasure. Right. And I mean, the emails got delivered. So that's all that matters. Yeah. There you go. It all goes back.

Mariah Parsons 31:08

Maybe. Yeah, maybe we'll have t shirts to deliver alongside with the emails at some point. There you go.

Nikita Vakhrushev 31:17

One thing I didn't want to bring up is if people did want to get their deliberative deliverability looked at they can always go to aspect agency.com And, you know, go through the audit process, and we typically charge for these but since they're coming in from the, from the podcast, you just write down that you came from the pod, and we'll do it for

Mariah Parsons 31:34

free. Very much. Appreciate that. Thank you. I hope our listeners take you up on it. Absolutely. All right. Thanks, Nikita.