This transcript was completed by an automated system, please forgive any grammatical errors.
shopify, brands, great, experience, talk, headless, learned, people, retention, focus, project, customers, terms, brazilian jujitsu, years, started, good, work, cool, clients
Aaron Quinn, Mariah Parsons, Noah Rahimzadeh
Noah Rahimzadeh 00:04
Hey retention pros. I'm Noah Raheem today and I lead partnerships here at Malomo. I'm super pumped to continue to chat with ecosystem experts alongside Mariah, who you all already know and love, say hi, Mariah.
Mariah Parsons 00:16
Hey, everyone, as you probably know, retention Chronicles likes to bring in some of the best retention focused brands in the Shopify ecosystem.
Noah Rahimzadeh 00:24
Well, we don't just feature brands, we also feature some great thought leaders in the Shopify ecosystem that serve brands.
Mariah Parsons 00:31
And because we always want these conversations to be fun, you'll hear us talk with our guests about what they're excited about and what's helped them get to where they are today.
Noah Rahimzadeh 00:39
We hope you'll stick around to learn and laugh with us retention Chronicles
Mariah Parsons 00:43
is sponsored by Malomo a shipment in order tracking platform improving the post purchase experience, be sure to subscribe and check out all of our episodes at go. malomo.com.
Noah Rahimzadeh 00:59
Okay, super excited for today's episode. Aaron, great to finally meet you. Today. We've got Erin Quinn, founder and CEO of E house long standing partner of Malomo that I think even predates my tenure here. And I've never met Aaron. So I'm excited to do this live. Well not live but kind of live.
Mariah Parsons 01:22
Semi live, you know, close enough. Yeah.
Noah Rahimzadeh 01:25
With our audience. Aaron, thanks so much for stopping by and hanging out with us for a while.
Aaron Quinn 01:31
Yeah. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here. Cool.
Noah Rahimzadeh 01:34
We were talking to Karen before the call started. She's in Utah. Are you also in Utah?
Aaron Quinn 01:41
I'm not I'm in Charleston, South Carolina. So like totally different region. Climate and all? So yeah, we're, we're originally kind of headquartered here. And, and so but the image is to be distributed all over the life many others. So yes,
Noah Rahimzadeh 02:01
yeah, we feel that one of my favorite cities in America have been like five times and all like the food scene. There is just
Aaron Quinn 02:09
Yeah. Yeah, they they do they know how to do food? Well, I mean, a lot of places do as well. But yeah, it's, it's a good place to eat. And just an all around cool place, and, you know, kind of an older city. So I think that brings a lot of charm. So
Noah Rahimzadeh 02:28
have you always been there? Or bounce or No,
Aaron Quinn 02:31
we were, we were actually in Boulder, Colorado before Charleston. I was there for quite some time with my wife. And we actually started e house in Boulder. And then we've been in Charleston for about 17 years. But I grew up in the Midwest. I'm a Chicago kid. So
Noah Rahimzadeh 02:54
I don't know if you heard us with care earlier, but we're in Indianapolis. So yeah, just a few hours south and I was telling her that I was sitting outside before I hopped on this zoom and I'm sweating through my shirt. So hopefully, if we're going live here, or we're doing work,
Aaron Quinn 03:11
then I think if we're comparing humidity up here a little bit. Yeah, it's intense. Its intense. I just got back from Costa Rica, and like jungle land and all this kind of stuff. And I came back and I was like, it's literally about the same humidity as is walking out my door. So or sound much different. So yeah, but it's it's good. I you know, everybody always says you get used to it. I think you just get used to sweating.
Noah Rahimzadeh 03:43
Yeah, the first time I went to Charleston, I was like, just shocked by how much I was losing bodily fluids.
Aaron Quinn 03:51
It's, you know, the good news. I always say, everybody else is doing it, too. So it's not like there's like a secret that you're the only person that is sweating. So I think you just have learned to go with it. Like, I think it's like anything else. The more you fight it, the worse it gets. So no matter how hard you like, mentally don't sweat, don't sweat don't get high. It doesn't work. So
Noah Rahimzadeh 04:15
yes, yeah, that makes me feel a little better. Thanks for saying that, man.
Mariah Parsons 04:20
I've never been to Charleston. And I don't know if this is convincing me to go. But I've heard
Aaron Quinn 04:24
great things. It's, you know, it's one of those places that like two months out of the year, it's hot, and it's humid, which I like to be honest with you so and then the rest of the year. It's great. You know, we don't have snow. We don't really have winter so, so it's definitely a good place to check out.
Mariah Parsons 04:44
I know you convinced me.
Aaron Quinn 04:46
There you go. doing my thing for jewelry. So
Noah Rahimzadeh 04:52
let's say on the personal side real quick before shop talk. We like to start our episodes with one or two things that our guests are excited about in their personal lives.
Aaron Quinn 05:04
Who you know, you know, I'm always I'm kind of a, I feel blessed, I have a great family. So that's one I've got two cool teenagers which are great. My wife is wonderful. My family is great. So certainly, that's, you know, kind of a big one for me. I think another one that's been like a big learning experience, I guess has been so I'm, I'm, I'm like a big surfer. So that's a big part of my life, but wanting to try something new. And my son and I have really been, we've talked about doing Brazilian Jujitsu, together with zero experience, and anything like that. So last September, we both went. And it's not, maybe me in terms of like, going to someplace, I don't know, people that I don't know, and doing something that I have no experience, like, just being that complete newbie is kind of terrifying. For me. But it was great. It was it's been awesome. We'd love it now are like, super passionate and super into it. And we go multiple times a week. And it's just been, it's been a really cool experience, especially as I've gotten, you know, I'm older. And so having that experience of like learning something new for the first time and being that kind of new person, there's actually a lot of enjoyment in that and remembering that and then obviously spending time with him. And then I think there's just a lot that I've learned in terms of like, what I'm learning, they're like, oh, it's applicable in my life or my business. You know, things like being humble. I mean, we're, as a white belt, you're basically in survival mode for a few years. So like, you're going into it going, like everybody's better than me, they're all going to beat me up. This is going to be a rough hour and a half. But I'm good with it. You know, and being humble to that, I think, knowing that there's no shortcuts, that's a hard one, you know, I'm a pretty, like, want to get better, I want to get better, I want to get better type of person, but knowing that it's just about like putting in the time putting in the effort. What maybe somebody next what, like my son's experiences and my experience, like we have different, you know, minds and bodies and all that kind of stuff. So we're not going to be the same. You know, asking for advice. Asking for help is another thing, I think it's really kind of inspired me like not to be afraid to say, Hey, can you help me? Because people are really cool about that. And then I think the last one is really just like slowing down, breathing, saving energy, putting your energy into the right thing and the right opportunity, not all the time. It's something that, you know, literally, you know, others would get an estimate of like, you're trying too hard for like five minutes, you're you're at like, 100%, when you got to be at like 100% a little bit at a time at the right moment. And a lot of that stuff, you just you kind of like hear it. And then you come out of the class and you're just like holy cow, this stuff so applicable in life, or work or dealing with the team or difficult situation at work or things like that. So that's been really cool.
Noah Rahimzadeh 08:38
That is awesome. Also, I think you might have just answered the last question when we bring it back to the personal side, but I'm not going to spoil that. That is incredible. So I'm not really familiar with Brazilian jujitsu. Is that like, Are you like, hand to hand combat? You're getting beat up? Like, it's,
Aaron Quinn 08:59
yeah, so it's, it's so it's basically like self defense. It's, it's a lot of like, groundwork. So it's, I would say it's kind of somewhat similar to wrestling and in some capacity, you obviously were like a GI so the traditional kind of martial arts you know, clothing, and it's, it's about self defense. It's about, you know, being in control. It's really great. So for anybody who's interested in it's the hardest workout I've ever done in my life and I'm a really kind of workout fanatic it's exhausting you know, and it's it's just great to keep people safe give you like good skills in terms of that. It's a unique martial arts in that a lot of martial arts you can't practice on each other, it's not something you can do, because obviously going to hurt somebody. But BJJ like, you know, most of the class, I would say, you know, you're learning stuff in the class, it's kind of like chess to in terms of like lots of moves, somebody does this, you got to do this, somebody does that slightly change it here. So it's like mental poo. But then, you know, 30 minutes of the class, you're literally physically sparring with people and five minute rounds. So it's, you know, it's just a lot of like, on the court experience. So that's where you've got a lot of like, you know, police officers, military, Navy SEALs, things like that focus on that as a sport because of what what you're learning and the experience that you get in it. But it's also a great community. Honestly, it couldn't be a more welcoming experience. Like I locked out that the thing that I tried for the first time, you know, the culture is there to kind of be supportive. So it's all about incorporating people being welcoming, it's okay to be new, it's okay to teach people, you know, there's kind of a mentor relationship thing going on. So it was it was like, the opportune thing for both my son and I kind of learned to put ourselves out there to try something new. Maybe that was intimidating. Where I'm sure not everything is that way. So it's been it's been great. And just really cool people too. So
Noah Rahimzadeh 11:27
yeah, I feel like that's like, regardless of what it is, like the people involved in it are at least 50%. If not more, yeah. Does. Yeah. It's a new thing. Yeah. Where you're traveling to? Or what neighborhood you live in, like, your experience is really defined by who is around you, not necessarily what I think a lot of times,
Aaron Quinn 11:50
yeah, it's, you know, raising, you know, essentially a man almost, and, you know, almost a woman, you know, you think about those things like what kind of things do you want them to have in their their lives or anything? What are the, you know, maybe some of the lessons that I've learned, and how can they learn and maybe a little bit sooner than I did on tablet impact on their life? So this has been one of them for us for sure.
Noah Rahimzadeh 12:16
Yeah, that's awesome, man. Also, it's kind of a nice break. Not that there's anything wrong with where other guests have been in their personal lives. But I am not kidding. Like, every single one of them for the last five or 10 episodes has said they're a new parent. So we're getting a new perspective here.
Aaron Quinn 12:35
Yeah, I mix. Yeah, I definitely have to say like, sometimes my age hits me a little bit. And I'm like, wow, everybody's like, Yeah, I'm so excited. I've got a two year old and a two year old at home. And I'm like, Well, mine are 17 and 14. So close. But no, it's it's different. For sure. But but still kids, but but almost not. So yeah.
Noah Rahimzadeh 13:05
Very cool. I'm sure there's jealousy on both sides. Like I wish my kids were still two and they're like, oh my god, I can't wait for my babies.
Aaron Quinn 13:12
Yeah, yeah, there's definitely like, oh, my gosh, what is it like to get sleep? And then you're like, well, there's a period where you don't and then you know, and then all of a sudden you are and then they're driving and then it's all out the door in terms of like sleep, relax, paying, relax, things like that. It's like a whole new new world level of worry. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, and then that the time then you just look up and you're like, Oh, my God my cake and drive me around. Like that's wild. Go.
Noah Rahimzadeh 13:48
Yes. Cool. Thanks for sharing that. So when you're, you know, when you're not practicing Brazilian Jujitsu, you are running an agency and not taking care of your kids. Tell us a little bit about like your your background up until he house and then I'd love to really dive into the house and where you guys are at today?
Aaron Quinn 14:13
Sure. Well, my background I can tell you my background is is is short. Because I really so the house turned 21 this summer. So I've been doing this for quite some time. It's probably my only real job. I guess I could say you know, we I started the company with some friends from Mexico City that I went to military school with, which is like a whole nother story and ride there. But yeah, we started it kind of as just a way to work together and that's when I was in in Boulder and then, you know, fast forward you know? halfway through that, you know, you know, less than that really, you know, started working with Chris who's, who's my wife and my business partner and our CFO and, and so, you know, obviously I went to, you know, business school and all that kind of stuff. And we're like many others that, you know, gotten to the web world of like, all of a sudden, you know, like reading books on how to figure out how to do things and learning bit by bit and by bit and have kind of done all our roles, I kind of joke, I was a designer, I was a terrible developer. You know, and I've learned, especially as you grow an agency, you're kind of I like to say, you kind of learn the role, and then you move to that next role when somebody else comes in, and does that role for you. And so you kind of touch a little bit of everything and, and now spend, you know, my, my days is really the CEO kind of leading the division and the team and, and dealing with, you know, clients that are interested in working with us and things like that, and partners and bigger relationship stuff. So an enjoyable, very cool.
Noah Rahimzadeh 16:13
There's so much to unpack there. And you are the most interesting guy I've ever met.
Aaron Quinn 16:18
Not even Yeah, super boring. Yeah. No.
Noah Rahimzadeh 16:21
Ruined Mexico City and military school. And
Aaron Quinn 16:26
yeah, I was a I was a handful of a teenager. So I definitely got cheat kids that were way better than I was.
Noah Rahimzadeh 16:35
That is That is very cool. I feel like, you know, most of the people we have on have not been in the E commerce world for as long as you have. What was like, what was the I think you do a lot of work in the Shopify agency today. But like, what was the evolution of that? Because 21 years
Aaron Quinn 16:51
ago? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Not not the same. Yeah, so we, we obviously started, gosh, all I'll see how much I date myself. So we obviously started with when we first started, I mean, we built like, CD ROMs, for magazines, within director and flax and things like that. It was like a wild wild west in terms of that. My partners at the time, had learned, flashed, and we're using it in TV production. And, you know, we all needed jobs. So we kind of created one at the time. And we started doing web work. And that kind of evolved over the years and doing like a lot of like large content sites and things like that. And then we worked our way into E commerce and then worked with, you know, kind of billion dollar retailers on UX and UI and, you know, front end development, UI kits, things like that. And then I think was about nine years ago, you know, we were approached about this Shopify Plus partner program, and we were just kind of like, you know, we knew we wanted to do something different, I would say we, you know, we could kind of see the writing on the wall when you're working for the big box retailers and realizing like, you know, who's like chasing one big project after a next and you could kind of see things shifting in that DDC focus. So, you know, I would love to say it was like, you know, foresight into what things are going on. It was just kind of like the next opportunity to just go like, I don't know what's try it, it's better than this. And it just happened to be a really great opportunity. It certainly in the beginning was like, again, just, you know, we're figuring things out every step of the way of like, how do we deal with catalogs that are really big, and things like that? And what about this? And what about that, but it's obviously been a really wild ride. I mean, we've been doing it now. I think for about nine years, we were wanting to probably the first group of partner agencies at the time with plus and and we work with Shopify Plus exclusively. So that's all our work is on that platform. And so it's been, you know, it's been great.
Noah Rahimzadeh 19:26
So I'm curious, you talked a little bit about it, but like, what were some of the signs that you thought this is the direction like even though they approached you, you had to make a call right? You were on these legacy commerce platforms and ultimately decided we're gonna give this new Shopify Plus thing a shot, like, what was sort of some of the, like decisions that went or the variables, you know, that went into that decision? You know, it
Aaron Quinn 19:49
just, I think it really came from like the project engagements and then seeing how things went and you know, objects back then, you know, we would be doing projects and we'd be working alongside like IBM teams and Oracle teams and diversity and all this kind of stuff. And you were just like, okay, great, you know, and we'd be doing design projects and front end development projects, that would take two years, and, you know, like 4060 50% of the work that we would do would literally hit the cutting room floor, like, never make it to production, right, and you're having conversations where it's like, oh, we're going to be doing this feature, you know, that's on the roadmap for 12 months from now. And you're like, like, seriously, like, we can't, like, we can't wait for that, right, like, doing an upsell, or simple things like, you know, a good customer account, or loyalty or this or that you were just like, all this stuff was so complicated, no matter what we could come up with the idea of actually executing, it was so far in a way of what was going to be actually live by the time that came, and, you know, you're working on projects for years on end, and then getting there, I mean, we'd get to the end of the project, and the stuff that was not available now was available, and you're just kind of like it's an endless, long cycle of not being able to get done what you want to get done. So I think that was a big part of it, and we knew something was gonna have to change, like, you can't be that slow. And that slow moving, is especially where ecommerce was going. And I think there were still those DTC brands that were starting to shake things up. A you know, and the newer technology was coming out it just, you know, the large, you know, billion dollar retailers, things like that. It's like, No, it's not for us, it's not for us, it's never going to be for us, which, you know, it's kind of like, the, you know, you know, iPod and yeah, see, you know, like, eventually it is, you know, like it's going to get there, it's just how, how long is it going to take and, and how fast are the consumer is going to be pushing it in that direction? And can you catch up? So I think that was a big part of it. Again, I think just being that also, just from a business standpoint, right? Like, you know, it's pretty scary when you've got 23 people or something like that with a big part of your revenue coming from this one big client versus lots of clients that you're working with for three, four months, and then ongoingly versus that one client, that's like two years, and you're like, great, this is amazing. And you can see exactly when you're going to be done, right, like, two years from now. What next? And so it was just needing to change our business model as well.
Noah Rahimzadeh 22:59
Yeah, that's really interesting. I, this might be a stretch, but I, it reminds me of the apple like headset, what you just described where, you know, the market has not really reacted super positively to it, at least as far as what I've seen. And I've heard some arguments that like this project was greenlit years ago, they knew it was going to take years to develop. But when it was greenlit it made all the sense in the world, the fact that they knew it take two or three years to develop data, like that's why they missed because they're like, how could you you know, being a nimble trying to be a nimble agency that has to stay on the cusp of innovation greenlit a multi billion dollar project that's going to tie up assets for two years, and the market might not even be there when it's ready. Exactly. And so, Ryan made me think of that, that scenario two, totally. And
Aaron Quinn 23:53
I and there's there's some visionary aspect of it too, right. You know, there's that there's that art form of also being there, right before you know, everybody else gets there, right? Like there's you can be way too far out in advance, which is also a problem, right? Because people just can't keep up. But the art form, I think, is being there. Right when when it caught up and again, I definitely we just, we were blessed to lock into a good situation. But I think the things that we had been seeing, opened our eyes, I guess, to the opportunity. I mean, we were down the street from a massive Magento shop and things like that. So sometimes knowing what we're not going to be also was a big part of deciding where we were going to go. You know, you don't always see this is where it's going to be but you can also see like, well, this is where we feel like we can't go What that right. You know, if we don't do this, then what? What's the alternative to making not making this decision? And so sometimes you have to look at it in that perspective.
Noah Rahimzadeh 25:12
Yeah, that's super interesting. Do you do you? So the big theme that I'm hearing is like Shopify allows you to be a lot more agile and a lot quicker. Do you think that like, Do you think that's still the case? Do you think Shopify is still the platform that gives merchants and their agency partners that like, ability to most quickly get, get their site to market and then iterate on their site? Over time?
Aaron Quinn 25:41
Yeah, I mean, absolutely, I think it's still, you know, when you think about Shopify, and plus, I think the big thing that we still talk to people about ultimately is, I think it's being in control, you know, driving themselves around in their own car, that's a big one that we kind of talked about, like, nobody wants to have somebody build them a car, and then oh, by the way, I got to drive you around in it, like, they want to be able to control themselves. I mean, that's the power of of like, agencies are great, right, but like keeping up with oh, we need to get this alive, we need to do this, this promotion needs to go this, this, this, this, it's, it's very difficult to keep up with that. And so they need to be able to adapt to that and turn internal. And so I think the big thing is, is really for brands to be able to control the store on their own. That's key without that technical, huge, massive technical team behind the scenes. And I think for the technical side, I think it's the ability to kind of shift that focus to, you know, we want to branded order tracking pages, okay, got it? Well, you know, in the old days that you know, and in different systems, it's like, two months, you know, we're gonna deploy that in 234 months, and we're still having difficulty and it doesn't work quite right. You still hear that stuff all the time. Whereas now it's kind of like, yeah, we can knock that out this sprint. And so that speed is so much different. And it's so it's kind of the plot, it's, it's the whole thing, right? It's not just Shopify as like liquid and Dev and API's, it's that it's the ecosystem, it's the support in and around that is the ability to plug x and y in together and be able to move that forward. So brands have to be less of a technology based kind of focus company and focus more on what the consumer wants, because I think, as the technology is accelerated, so as the consumers needs and wants, they want to move quicker to you know, what made them happy before, and what makes them happy. Six months from now will be vastly different. Right. And so to keep up with that pace, they need something that's going to allow them to do that. So that's, that's a big part of still to this day. You know, that's why we're having conversations, frankly, you know, those brands that were like nowhere thinking about Shopify now are asking those questions for that exact reason.
Noah Rahimzadeh 28:16
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's just a great like synopsis of the sort of the agility. I think that that Shopify gives brands. And I see it too, because I came from the enterprise Mar tech space, a lot of like Salesforce marketing cloud, you know, what would be considered apps, but at the end of the day, they're like full enterprise solutions that plug into or sit on top of your enterprise, USP, and an implementation is going to take, you know, four to six months on a on a good on a good day. And to your point, like while that the tech is super valuable, like you're wasting so much time and resources, just getting it stood up. And by the, by the time you do the use case that you stood up first might be irrelevant, or much less relevant. Now you got to start start over. So yeah, as I love the Shopify ecosystem, because it's like, it's kind of I call it the wild, wild west, like, things are just moving so quickly there. You know, there's probably pros and cons, but there's definitely a lot less red tape, and people are just like, let's put our heads down and get shit done and move really quickly. Because that's sort of, I think, part of the ethos that like Shopify has allowed brands to, to operate with.
Aaron Quinn 29:41
Absolutely, yeah, I think again, I think it just comes down to, you know, I mean, especially with COVID, right, like, you saw a lot of brands that their whole, you know, like, market strategy was like, you know, I I've talked to people a lot of like surfing brands, like surfing brands, the Hallmark strategy is getting into the surf shop, get into this, get into that get into this and the idea of actually, like engaging with the customer, or providing, you know, shipping information, or I didn't get my order, or what is it, like all of that was like brand new to them. And so I think it's this whole idea of like, okay, now that you really do as a brand have to own the overall customer journey. That's where we need tools and technology to allow us to focus on the customer journey, remove kind of the barriers of like, this system needs to talk to that system, right? Like, why is that the bulk of the conversation? Right? Like, why is it about what we really need, you know, the, this shipment information to go back into the system? And we're going to spend hours and hours talking about that. But what's actually on the page and their customers experience is like, yeah, like, that's what they see. But we're fighting, how do we make this one talk to that one? It's just, it's wasted effort. It's back to kind of what I was talking about. Like, it's not picking the energy for the right opportunity. It's picking it for the wrong thing. And so that's why the customer experience isn't great. And the brand experience is also terrible as well.
Noah Rahimzadeh 31:24
Yeah. Man, that's a really take. Go ahead, Ron.
Mariah Parsons 31:28
Yeah, that makes I'd be curious to hear your opinion, Aaron on, because we're talking obviously, on the brand side of how like a brand's priorities can shift. But how do you think that's influenced consumer behavior? Because my two cents on it is now the expectation, and we talked about this a lot with Malomo is the expectation is you're a lot more attached to the brands that you're buying from, because like the Shopify ecosystem, and the E commerce space has developed in a way that that has now become the importance for the brand side. So would you say like, that's kind of, like both of those things in tandem working together, with brands not having to focus on like the tech and just being able to plug and play different supporting apps for their Shopify store. What do you what are your thoughts on that?
Aaron Quinn 32:15
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think it's like, through the convenience, there's also just a closer relationship, like the so like, an example. You know, I, I bought, you know, a cold plunge. Right. And it's a Shopify, it's a brand on Shopify. And, you know, it took weeks to get, you know, so it took forever to get got it, and something more than right, you know, it was leaking water, it was doing this and like, you know, there's that hope, God, like, um, you know, like, the delivery was a challenge of like, what are we going to do here, what the customer support is going to be like, and this idea of, I go on to the customer support, call the number and the first thing they do is, it just says, like, Hey, if you don't want to wait, we'll text you back. And we'll have the communication over texts, which I had never done before. Because typically, you know, if it doesn't work, I'm like, forget it, just put it in a box. And don't worry about it, because I hate that experience of going back and forth with somebody. Because it's so bad, right? And so just this idea of like, okay, yes, text me back. And, you know, then Brad is texting me back going like, Hey, can you send me a photo of what you're seeing? Can you try this? Let me send you this real quick here and like, all the sudden, and it's stuff that like, yeah, it's communication. It's customer support. But it's Brad, who's in my, you know, phone messages. And I'm like, Hey, man, I'm on vacation. Let me send you that video. When I get back. He's like, Yeah, no problem. No worries. And so all of a sudden, Brad, isn't customer support, Brad, it's just Brad. And so I have a different relationship. And so, here I am, like, feeling like I'm getting to know the brand when I'm dealing with an issue. And so I think it's such a way that the technology is changing and information and when done, right, right. And it can be done wrong. Or lots of different ways. Like, now the tech allows us to do so wrong so quickly. Most definitely. But when done, right, I think the, you know, the relationship that you build with the brand is so much different than like, you know, fill this out, do this. There's a robot on the other side, nobody knows who you are, they don't really care that, you know, you didn't get it or you're on vacation, or they're sending you emails, when you're on vacation going like you have seven days to do your return. You know, like nobody's aware of that. So I think that's what's been, I think, really different from what people experienced, kind of like pre COVID And then you but really had to figure it out during COVID, because that's the way people shopped. And I think we've learned so much from that now.
Mariah Parsons 35:08
Yeah, I love that perspective and story to support it too. Yeah, absolutely.
Noah Rahimzadeh 35:15
Tell us so that I imagine was not an easy house. So client that you bought know about a cool project that you or your team has worked on lately that you're excited about?
Aaron Quinn 35:29
Yeah, I mean, you know, so we've, we're easily stoked, I guess I would say it's like we, you know, every project we launched, I think, is really exciting. It's just seeing something come from nothing to something just doesn't get old. I've been doing this for a long time. And it's still really exciting. And I think it's really exciting. It's really easy to go like, man, it's cool, man, the results are great. As an agency, and as a service provider to I'm sure you guys experiences too, but like, also the feedback of like, oh, my gosh, this has made my job so much easier. You know, I kind of tell the team, oftentimes, it's like this idea of like us running into somebody's office, taking all their old computer stuff, which might be junky might be difficult, leaving them with new stuff, but it's still new stuff, and you still got to set out and you still got to figure it out. But when they come out of it, they're like, this is going to change the I have to stay up any late anymore and do this. So that's really cool. So I think there's that aspect of it as well that I would just add on that to enjoy it. enjoyable for us, but cool projects, you know, we recently did a headless launch for Briogeo hair, which has been really exciting, you know, just to be able to see, unleash kind of what we need to do and have that PWA experience allow us to really push speed and performance, while also still delivering all the content and the features and things like that, that we want to same for branded bills, you know, a headless plus build for them, you know, really cool brand that seeing a lot of growth and then you know, you know, kind of you know vertical leaders like Title Boxing, we just launched a new site for Title Boxing, which is a really cool, you know, really well known brand and renewed true kind of boxing community what you envision, like, you know, if rocky went to a gym, they'd have Title Boxing stuff in that gym. So there's that back cool aspect, especially as well. So you know, lots of great results, speed conversion, ARV all that kind of good stuff. And, you know, I'm sure we'll be posting case studies on that, but really enjoyable projects and, and clients, as well. And so really proud of of the team's work there.
Noah Rahimzadeh 37:51
Yeah, for Yoshi as a long term client of ours. I don't know if you've done a case study with them. Mariah,
Mariah Parsons 37:57
we have done a case study. Yeah, they haven't come on the podcast. I just use their products actually last night, which is awesome. Yeah. But they're great company.
Noah Rahimzadeh 38:06
So you're probably shocked from the new headless site.
Mariah Parsons 38:10
On Well, I don't know, actually, I'd have to, I'll go check right now.
Aaron Quinn 38:15
But I use their products as as well. Just because we've, we've got them at the house. But But yeah, it's good stuff.
Mariah Parsons 38:24
They're a little like their container too. It gets me every single time. It's adorable branding.
Aaron Quinn 38:29
So great, is a great brand. And yeah, it was just an exciting project. It was, you know, it was something that, you know, they were really excited about kind of the brand transformation, the redesign and things like that, that they were doing. So that's great. And again, you know, we're really blessed to work with some great clients as well. It's not always about how cool the brand is, or what celebrity or this or that sometimes it is great because, you know, so and so on the other side is really cool. And we're going to have an impact on on their job or their company or this or that. That's pretty inspiring, as well. So,
Noah Rahimzadeh 39:05
absolutely. Sounds like a couple headless projects recently, and we haven't heard as much of the headless Buzz is, you know, maybe a year ago to everything we've talked about things move fast. Are you doing your first question? Are you doing a lot of those still in second? What's sort of the preferred platform that your house likes to use?
Aaron Quinn 39:28
Yeah, you know, we so I don't think a lot you know, it's still you know, a smaller subset of their clients that that we work with I think, you know, I'm a firm believer in like headless isn't right for everybody. I really truly believe that. I think it's it's it's excellent for the right people and terrible for the for the wrong people and the wrong brands. So I certainly don't think it's one size fits all. You know, it's real. really just that opportunity to deliver that experience, that kind of product, and brand value, you know, storytelling and things like that without, you know, some of the limitations that we have to worry about, you know, which isn't like fun stuff like speed and performance and things like that, it changes that perspective. Sure, it's definitely still, I would say, on the cusp of like, the new. And so there's lots of learning curves and things like that as you go. But I think once it really comes together, it's, it's, it's fantastic. And I think directionally, it's where, you know, in general, ecommerce is gonna need to go, whether it's headless, or another solution, I think that speed is a part of that customer experience, that's crucial. In terms of, you know, again, we do a lot of, you know, liquid builds, that's predominantly what we do. And then in terms of platform, so we work with pack, which is a headless solution. And so they're, they're probably our go to, primarily just because, again, we're, you know, as I kind of mentioned earlier, it's about, you know, the speed, the performance, this and that, but a lot of the clients that we deal with to like their editing experience, and, you know, do you have to log in here and log in there and deploy this and deploy that do this and do that all that stuff's a lot. So I think, PACs done a really great job of like, building a very similar experience in terms of like, what it's like to manage a store in Shopify, or theme and things like that, and have it not be that tremendous, you know, I kind of liken it to it's like, it's still a computer, it's still got a keyboard and a mouse and things like that you're not like, you know, using voice commands to do everything, it doesn't feel like far out from what they're used to doing. It's really still there. And the focus, again, is that speed and performance, making it easy for them to use, being able to manage that content has been has been big. So
Noah Rahimzadeh 42:11
yeah, that's awesome. I'm really happy for Korea and the whole pack team. Like they've totally
Aaron Quinn 42:17
good, good people.
Noah Rahimzadeh 42:19
Yeah. Yeah, they're great. We, we kind of, I think we were connected with Cory before the headless, like transition from the agency he was running. So it's cool to see it all, kind of come full circle, and that they're doing well. Okay, I want to move on, it's retention Chronicles, I got to ask you about retention. So I'm not I'm not even sure. And I probably shouldn't know, like, how involved the house gets on the, like, retention marketing side. But regardless of that, even when you're thinking about doing a site rebuild for Briogeo, like what, how do you think about retention, and not just we need to make a pretty sight that acquires customers, even on like that, those very early days of building experience?
Aaron Quinn 43:08
Yeah, and we do. So we do do a lot of retention services. And it's something that we're, you know, also focused on throughout the design and kind of that build phase as well. Just especially just do the verticals that we work with, we work with a lot of health and wellness, we work with, you know, beauty, and cosmetic, and apparel brands and things like that. So that that is key is it is for, you know, all brands, really but you know, I think, retention for us, I mean, I think the way that we look at it is really it's like most simple form, it's, you know, providing that value that customers ultimately want. And when you provide that value, they're willing to continue to come back and, and, and give you that business, for your company, for your brand for your product, whatever that may be. And it's really as simple as that, like, yes, there's lots of stuff that make up, you know, what you could do, how you can do it where you can do that. But at the end of the day, it really boils down to like value and what they want, what you can give, and if you can give them the right things, then they will stay sticky and continue to shop with you. And I think there's levers that you can pull there in terms of like, what has the impact, right, you know, we talked a lot about, you know, the, you know, the personalized customer experiences, How does customer support fit into that, you know, loyalty and membership programs and how are you driving value through those for customers so that they're more engaged with the brand. You know, the user experience, how does it you know, kind of have that seamless experience no matter where you're shopping or you're, you know what you're doing really making sure that that's kind of flowing through and true. Product quality, a you know, is part of it and It's a good one.
Noah Rahimzadeh 45:01
Yeah, ever hear that? Because I think a lot of people think it's a given, it's not a given is not
Aaron Quinn 45:07
Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, like, you know, I think a lot of people were like, Hey, we're seeing this in our, you know, retention, you know, subscription, cancellations, and this and that, and what do you think of the data? And, you know, one of the questions I always ask is, like, you don't have anything of like, is the product bad? Like? Do you know that? You know, you gotta be willing to ask the question to know, because it's not always like, well, I have too much or have too little or, you know, I don't want it anymore. Like, well, why, you know, is it bad? Do you not like it? Did we not do a good job? Like understanding those things are important. So product quality is a big one. Pricing, you know, is the price will what they're willing to pay, right? Is that a good value for them? When you combine everything else? And it doesn't mean you need to be price sensitive, but you do need to factor that in it is a factor, probably more so now, with everything going on economically. You know, the communication, the educational content, how are you educating them? Are you keeping them educated? You know, I mean, I was just literally like, shopping for some more natural deodorant. I'm like, the fact that that's still friggin confusing, is like mind blowing, right? Like, you're still like, Well, does it need baking soda? Does it not? Is it not a woman and like, what didn't have I mean, there's like the pillars of like, Yes, don't hurt animals, and I want it to be good. But now it's like natural, all natural, like organic, all kinds of stuff all over the place to is still about educating the consumer, both pre and post, and then that post purchase engagement, which is huge for you guys. I mean, we've seen a lot of brands just adopt this idea of like, oh my gosh, like, it doesn't stop when they place the order. And like shipping is a thing we need to be involved with. And we can generate a lot of revenue in and around communications and around that, as well as customer experience. So that post person experience and then continually evolving, right? Are you asking the right questions? Are you serving? are you digging, digging into the reviews, not just answering their reviews, but getting that information, and then continuing to pivot and adjust? Because brands are coming out all the time? They're pivoting, they're adjusting? They're making those tweaks and adjustments, you got to continue to do that? Because people have choices now. You know, that's what we learned and COVID is we got to stay on top of this stuff, because they do have choices to pivot.
Noah Rahimzadeh 47:37
So many choices. This is like we're gonna have to clip this Mariah, this is like the most in depth. What does retention mean to you? John,
Mariah Parsons 47:46
I love it. Yeah.
Aaron Quinn 47:48
Don't be a talker. Yeah, I can be a talk that's perfect for
Mariah Parsons 47:52
us podcasters content, that's the best thing.
Noah Rahimzadeh 47:57
We I just looked up regios tracking page, because I remember them having some sort of educational content on here. And they do. And I think that it's a great mix of like, not only are we highlighting other products that make sense for you based on what you've already purchased, and using sort of that retention lever here. But we're also making sure that first and foremost, you're going to get the most out of the product that you just bought or at a higher, even higher level, like you're going to really understand what sets brioche to apart overall. And I think that the brands who not only focus on like driving additional revenue in these highly engaged touchpoints, but also focus on educating both on products and brand, are the ones who are really thinking about it the right way, because they're thinking about bringing value to merge, or to customers beyond just what they paid for. And I think that that goes a really long way in retaining customers.
Aaron Quinn 48:58
Absolutely. I think the hardest part is for people remember, it's the time you know the most about the customer, you can kind of guess the most information right then in there, right? Like they didn't purchase this, but gosh, they really should have like, I don't think you're gonna like this unless you have this right. Like, or, you know, all those types are what are they going to need to know, what do they need to know next, right, and how do I keep them engaged? Like, all of those things are so crucial. And I think, you know, people oftentimes push out that that kind of post purchase engagement way too far, because they think I don't want to bother them. I don't want to do this. It's not bothering if you're driving value. If you're just cramming stuff down their throat, then yeah, don't bother, right. But if you're truly driving value of like, Hey, man, we noticed you didn't get this you should have gotten this or by the way, like, this is how you should use this or this or that and like don't do this every day, right? You need to do this at this, you know, right Remember that stuff is so key because they did make a purchase, and you want them to have a good experience with you. And sometimes that means content, sometimes that means buy something else. Sometimes that means something, you know. Exactly.
Noah Rahimzadeh 50:15
refund and save money, because you're buying these products monthly anyway. But you're not saving because you're not in the program. It's
Aaron Quinn 50:22
exactly. Yeah. So I think it's moving that conversation up, I think is key. Yes.
Noah Rahimzadeh 50:29
Awesome, awesome episode. Love it. We both have hard stops there. And so we'll get you out of here. Last question. I hinted at it at the top. And you might have already given the answer. You've had an awesome like career so far, and your house is still hitting on all cylinders. What's like one tip or trick that you feel has helped you in on this sort of like awesome journey, and that you still sort of look back on as you continue to, to kill it.
Aaron Quinn 51:00
So So I have a mentor of mine used to say, and would remind me, little by little, and then all at once. And I use that a lot. And I talk to the team about that when we have, you know, meetings and quarterly meetings, and they're, you know, it's something that I use frequently, and like many others, I am not a patient person, you know, I kind of want to get to the goal I want, you know, I want to work with this, I want to work with that I want to do this, I want to have be at this point, you know, I want to you know, whether it's personal or you know, in work. It's really, I'm very goal centric. I like goals, and I like to work towards goals. But that's always that can be a challenging thing, too. And so I think that has been something that I've constantly reminded myself in terms of like, it's, it's not, it's great to have goals, but it's really about showing up putting in the work little by little working on the small things that add up, and you won't see them like, it's not like a system like do this, do that do this. And then it equals this, it really is this, just keep doing the right thing. And then eventually, and sometimes you don't even know it, you kind of look up and you're like, Whoa, that happened. Like, how did that happen. And it's just because you show up and you keep doing doing that work. So I really kind of remind myself to on the bad days, and the good days, keep doing the work. Don't always worry about x and y is going to equals Z just worry about dou x dou x dou x dou x and eventually that z is going to kind of come or a different Z that I didn't even know was going to be there. Kind of focusing on that I think it's so easy. My dad used to always say like, if you go to like a big ship and you look out front, it looks like you're going slow. If you you know go to the back of the ship, you realize you're going way faster and you're churning up all this water. And so perspective is so key. So I just tell people a lot be patient with the hard work and and the right thing. Oh, come and just have faith.
Noah Rahimzadeh 53:26
Yeah, that reed Hoffman always talks about that, like, founder of LinkedIn talks about like, I It's a window of opportunity. He has some other phrase of it, but he's like, You, it's like when opportunity and lock sort of meet each other and all our preparation and luck meet each other. And it's all it's like putting in the work and then finding the right opportunities to your point earlier to put all of that energy behind. Yeah, think about that about two. That's an awesome, awesome sort of
Aaron Quinn 53:58
there's, yeah, just do the work. There's no, no Instagram posts, no LinkedIn, you're gonna click that it's going to tell you, you know, the way to make it, you know, or be successful. Just do the right stuff and try and do your best. And if you're right 50% of the time, you're in good shape.
Noah Rahimzadeh 54:19
Absolutely. Well, Erin, thanks so much, man. Again,
Aaron Quinn 54:23
Noah Rahimzadeh 54:24
not and by this was awesome action packed episode. Mariah. Thank you, Kara. Thank you for coordinating and we'll see you all very soon. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me.