Adrianne Verheyen (00:04):
So why a quiz smile may be your biggest LTV play yet? And in Bambu Earth's case, I'm just going to explain a little bit about the CTC ecosystem and how bamboo as a brand fits into it. So combat collective the agency i am sury of you are familiar with, or for a hundred, the holding company, Bambu Earth, one of the four brands that four by 400 homes and Coleman, my husband, he's the general brand manager for Bambu Earth and then admission the training platform and community for, operators or marketers who are spending less than 15 K a month in paid ads, sort of DIY in their grocery e-commerce brand. So Kohlman Tell us a little bit about your journey since acquiring bamboo under four by 400 in March, 2019.
Kohlman Verheyen (03:09):
Yeah, of course. First of all, short history on Bambu Earth, it was established, by an incredible woman, Amber in 2009, which was way before clean skincare was cool or a search term, or an industry or a section that Target or Sephora. So a long time ago she started it because she wanted clean, safe products for herself. Couldn't find them anywhere, started making them, started selling to friends that kind of garage startup story. She operated for nine ish years, nine or 10 years. And then 4 by 400 started communicating with her about potential acquisition. And ultimately we landed that in March of 2019. The business is interesting for a couple really interesting purposes. Number one, Amber, the founder is incredible. Her heart for women is, and her mission to change the conversation around beauty and her message is incredibly unique. It's a really cool value proposition for us. So we saw that and we saw her and we said, “you're really good at a couple of things and you're really bad at eCommerce. And we think that you can be really good at e-commerce like, let us help. Cause we're really good at e-commerce.” So that's what we did. You can see by the numbers, for a super high level in just net revenue, $106,000 total in 2018 calendar year $800, just under 800 in 2019. And that was between acquisition and the end of the year. So it was really just nine months. Uh, the bulk of that was like you know, in the last four or five months and we're slated for eight and a half million this year. So it's a, it's a really wild growth trajectory and it's really unique and it's definitely not it's not one size fits all kind of shoe or hat. But in the next couple of slides are the tools that we use and processes that we use to get on this growth trajectory. And it really comes down to like learning deeply about your customers and then communicating to your customers in a deep and unique and authentic way with the information that you learned about them and then using to retain people. An ounce of retention is worth a pound of acquisition.
So, yeah, let's get into sort of why this skin quiz was such a foundational path and one of those components towards the rapid growth they've seen over the last year or so. We’'re going to go through the entire customer journey with the skin quiz, ending with sort of what they've seen in terms of their growth and LTV. The first step being the skin quiz ad to the quiz itself. And so why Bambu Earth is willing to take 1.4 row ads return on ad spend on their quiz funnel versus a 1.9 roas, on a single product funnel. And so being a repeat purchase, consumer goods product, a 1.4 Rojas they're winning at scale. And so Coleman talked to us a little bit about why that is.
Kohlman Verheyen (07:03):
Yeah, it's entirely about the time horizon that you look at, right? So, if you, if you need your cash back on a one day basis, if you are super cash strapped like us, right. it just meant that when, when we were first trying to grow Bambu Earth and using the apps that we have and using the platforms that we have and using the products that we like, everything that we were trying was like, okay, we, we only win the game at a 1.9 plus one day click Roas. Right. As it turns out we were, we were just, we were winning the game, but we were measuring for the wrong game. So, what we should have been measuring was, you know, LTV on a 60 or 90 or whatever, 30, if we wanted to day basis. And again like that just depends on your cash position, kind of what you can float and, like a number of different financial factors for the most part. But for us we did say that, ‘yeah, our LTV customer LTV within 60 days is so good that, we prefer to scale at a 1.4, of course, because you can buy a ton more customers at, at 1.4, then you can add a 1.9. So we said, well, let's do this instead of try and win at 1.9 where we were just not making any money. So, ultimately we tested a ton of different creative things. This is the ad, the ad that's like working the most, I think lifetime we've spent 70 grand against it. And it's, it's like at a 1.8 or something like that. But again, remember Facebook only looks at a 28 day window max, so we're not trying to make all of our cash back on a 28 day window we're profitable at a 1.4, but we're like, none of us are just trying to break even, cause then you never grow.
Right. You want to like break even, and then some so that you can fuel your next customer acquisition, et cetera. So 2.0, right. Or like two months down the road, it's significantly better, but you have to have a tool that measures that. Right. So, there's a couple of different ways to do that. Ultimately, when we built it, we built a tool and it was really clunky and lame. And then we found somebody who was building a much better tool. And so we use that and now we're kind of working on our own again. but the main point to consider here is that, like it's, it's just, really important to know what time horizon you can afford to win at and push back your victory until. So if you can, if you can wait until 60 days, you can significantly lower your success metric, right? Your target ROAS, on a one day click so that you can, like grab a ton more customers and you'll just recognize compound value over the next two months. Right. And then the assumption is that like you win, you like make plenty of profit in two months. And then like everything after that, it's just gravy. Like we're just trying to measure incentivize behavior and make it easy for people to behave in ways that we want them to right. Create behaviors and, like really unlock that kind of stuff on a 60 day window, not trying to control or like help people do anything outside of 60 days, it's just way too far and really challenging.
Adrianne Verheyen (10:21):
No customer ever lasts a lifetime. Right. So looking at that 60 day, or maybe for your brand, it's going to be 30 or 90, whatever that window is that your mean to recognize cash was in like, it's important to measure LTV within that window. So something to note before we move on, cause the next slide actually has a visual that goes on with this with regard to bullet three two K emails a day two to $3 acquiring emails for two to $3. Right? So notice on the ad, the CTA is learn more. I want you to know that we actually never run like hardly ever run ads. Yeah. Uh, ads that are optimized for conversion with the CTA learn more, right. This on the other hand is a quiz. And so we're actually driving people, not straight to purchase. We're driving people to talk to us more about who they are, what they need, their history, their history with their skin, everything you're seeing this screen record. what's crazy is that this ad is It's optimized for conversions. It's not optimizing for emails. It's not a lead gen ad. but we are acquiring emails for two to $3 per email and we're running a learn more CTA. So that's just really like, it's so important to understand that there's going to be nuances here and there. Like we really hardly ever recommend running, learn more CTA, always run shop now. so Coleman, you can elaborate a more on that, on the next slide, but yeah, go ahead.
Kohlman Verheyen (11:57):
Well, one other quick thing to mention there, Adriana is a great point. Learn more. Don't ever use that, except for like, I think it works for us because it's a super long funnel. Right? It's the age old sales like adage of, get them saying yes. And so it's like, Oh, it's just less hard Selly. yeah. Two to $3 emails, right? Like we're spending 4,000, $6,000 a day just on this ad. And we're getting 2000 emails a day. Like our email list has grown so much where like at 140,000 something total. And you know, we, we had like 12,000, I think when we acquired the business and uh, like 13, 14 months ago. Mmm. Anyways Typeform and Klayvio were the last two bullet points on that side. and I would, I would just say like on that, those are the tools that we use.
There's a lot of tools out there. These ones were super cheap. I mean, Typeform is really cheap and Klaviyo is pretty cheap until you get bigger and then it's more expensive, but it is such a valuable ecom tool. Like you should just do it. Mmm. And they play nice. They play nice together with regard to integration. So there's a couple of things that you've kind of got to manipulate it a little bit, but yeah, it's all, it's all workable and it's all doable. And yeah, Klaviyo's a good platform for like loading down a customer profile with data that you pull from a quiz that you want to be able to reference later and you can segment by we, we asked like, people's age in here, we asked their skin concerns and you can, you can like segment people by like, Oh, they said, under eye circles is important to them or, you know, here's the things that I'm stressed about. You can like email those specific people. And it becomes really valuable to communicate with people. If it's just like, you can put really personalized stuff in your flows and get beyond just, “Hey, Adrianne, here's a stock email that we send to everybody, but we put your first name. And so it feels cool”. Like this is very different level.
Adrianne Verheyen (13:54):
Coleman mentioned, in the quiz you had a shorter how many questions initially, and then you added a bunch more talk to us about the number of questions you had in the quiz and the differences you saw there.
Kohlman Verheyen (14:09):
Yeah. That's a really good question. So, uh, insider information that the quiz uses only four questions, five questions, I think, to determine your skin type, but it's actually 17 questions long currently. So we originally rolled out the 17 question quiz and completion rate was super high. Right. I was like 85, 90%. but like kind of at scale, like coming from a conversion oriented ad. So, that was really good. And every single one of those people we can email addresses from. So that's awesome. but we were like, could we do better? Right. And the question is always like people say like, Oh, your quiz is super long but it's mostly like us males who like, aren't trying to take a quiz for our skin necessarily. Or it's like us ecomm people who are like, just nitpicking the hell out of these like different individual components and platforms. But so we shortened the quiz and we split, tested in plot on Facebook, in platform. and the long quiz did way better than the short quiz with the short quiz. We boiled it down to just the five questions so that you just answered the no-nonsense questions and then it spits out your result right here on the next page, you'll see on the landing page. But, the long quiz did way better. I think for a couple of different purposes, I don't have to elaborate on those Adrian, if you don't want me to, but
Adrianne Verheyen (15:24):
The important thing to know is that like a long quiz might not be right for your brand and might be a short quiz, but like it's super important to test this. So you touched on this, this is where you guys can go find LTV of email and Google analytics. I believe Google analytics, LTV tools, and beta. Right now, this is a super helpful number to know, because $2 emails, so cheap plus they're like driving a conversion optimized ad to the quiz. Right. So they're not only like getting purchases, but also getting emails, which you're, it's like the best bang for your buck. So yeah,
Kohlman Verheyen (16:08):
The on, yeah. it is in beta, the acquisitionws range. Like it goes back forever if you want it to, but it only looks out, I think that's 90 days or something. So, it only gives you like the first three months of LTV, or revenue per user LTV per user. But, I was concerned about this slide, actually thinking about it yesterday, but it's legit because Google analytics tracks, on last click, based on last click attribution. So paid social is like people that came, took the quiz and checked out on the landing page. Right. But the email LTV people are the ones that didn't check out on the landing page, got an email clicked from that and then checked out. So yeah. So $10, 23 cents, is like actually, yeah. I mean, if you're, if you're collecting an email address for three bucks and it's 10 23 to, like LTV and again, this is, this is over 90 days. Like that's a really significant return on investment basically. yeah. It's like three X ish, so, anyways. Okay. Keep going.
Adrianne Verheyen (17:14):
Awesome. Okay. So next part in the customer journey, the quiz to the quiz results page. So this landing page developed specifically for the quiz results instead of just driving, driving like, Oh, here's a quiz, it's go to just this general collection page with like some smart thing at the top that would say the customer's name, like Coleman center, they've gone the extra step, have this very, very customized results, page results page and how this, so this journey here increase their onsite conversion rate up to 5.4, 4% and their add to cart rate to 18, which is like a crazy, like don't measure yourself against that benchmark. That's freaking crazy. So I just want you to hear that, but, talk to us a little bit about that, what you've learned from this results landing page, and why you think it's so successful.
Kohlman Verheyen (18:02):
Yeah. So number one, this is the V3 of the skin quiz results landing page. So we've, we've tested a couple of different things. Mmm. And this is the one that's currently like smoking the competition, I think for a couple of reasons. number one it's like, it feels personalized because it says your name and it says it basically starts to regurgitate to you at the very beginning. What, like you mentioned in the quiz. So it does feel like it's very tailored to you. Right and then from there, it, it like answers the natural question, which this is not a skin quiz and we're really like not trying to be disillusioned or disillusioned anybody about the fact that this is not a quiz to like determine what type of skin you have for the most part, women already know what kind of skin they have, so they're not trying to take our quiz to learn that information there. If they like to click through an ad of ours, it's because they saw a product that was like satisfying or entertaining or engaging or something like on some level. And they read a copy that said something about like, your skin is different. And so they're looking to us to make a product recommendation for them. So that's ultimately what we spit out to them. So, so we just, we just try to be really slow about the transition between like, let's take the skin quiz, there's all this fluff in there about like and by fluff, I mean, it's like really important, good brand pillar introduction stuff. Like you're telling us your first name. Like, let us tell you a little bit of something about us. Like, we think you're beautiful and there's nothing you can do about it. Umately it drops them on this landing page at the top. It says like, here's your name? We heard you, here's your skin type. And the things that you're concerned with, we heard you. and then from that, it says we were like rock right into, here's the ingredients that we recommend for your skin. Here's how people similar to you and similar age demographics and skin types and like stuff like that have, have recognized like some success. And then here's the product offerings. Right. so we just, we just launched, showing the custom mini kit alongside the full size kit. So ultimately like the funnel that we want people to work through is take the skin quiz by the custom mini kit, buy the full size kit and then subscribed to the full size kit. Right. That's just like the super logical, but we, like, we were waiting on showing people the full size kit until after they purchased the mini kit. And then as like, we were like, let's just try it. Let's see what happens when on mobile it stacks, mobiles were 90% of our traffic is so, but on desktop it like looks super pretty and side by, so you can see like Right away, like what the differences are and stuff, but,
It it's smashing both AOV and CR. So RPC is like through the roof on, the variant where the full-size kid is, and that's this one right here. So that's the mini kit. Then it comes down to the custom collection, which is the full size kit. and then yeah, you can kind of choose from there.
Adrianne Verheyen (21:12):
Okay, great. So, Okay. So this is talking about the conversion rate on their multiple product funnel versus on a single product funnel. and I just wanted to include both of these screenshots to show you guys what a difference there is here. So before swing skin, places on the top left, and then after skin quizzes on top or on the bottom, right. anything to point out here? Coleman, we have like eight minutes.
Kohlman Verheyen (21:42):
Yeah. the biggest thing to point out here, right. I considered just screenshotting the conversion rate part, but I thought that it wouldn't provide enough context, because right. Like the savvy e-commerce people around us are, and like on this call are going to say, well, like what about your returning customer rate? Right. If you're returning customer rates like 75%, then of course your conversion rates going to be better. But as you can see here, the returning customer rate was higher with the lower conversion rate, which means like we're getting new customers to convert at a higher rate using this new version of the skin quiz landing page. AOV is like, basically negligibly different. but yeah, that's, that's like the biggest, the biggest point there, and also sessions are higher, which means we're like being able to scale that more. So just conversion rate is like that point in the funnel where you're like, Oh my gosh. And if you can convert new customers, because you know that they're going to come back at 48%, then like you just, you just go buy all the new customers in the world.
Adrianne Verheyen (22:47):
Okay. okay, cool. So then the results page, that is not the end of the journey, obviously. So after a customer purchases are put in post-purchase flow, that's unique to the product they purchased. We're going to talk a little bit about that. and why we have, our sort of what those key elements of a successful post-purchase flow are.
Kohlman Verheyen (23:09):
Yeah. Stay on this side for a sec. so the thing to note here is you can see, in the flows that I have down there, I mean, number one, revenue from Klaviyo 26% is insane. All of that's from flows. I don't really even do campaigns anymore. Cause my flow is just print money. So I've got flows. Like this is five of, I think, 12 or 13 that I have, but I like ultimately starting out with just the normal flows, post-purchase browse, abandonment, checkout, abandonment, welcome. And post-purchase repeat. And then I started segmenting everything out by, skin quiz or not skin quiz, like post-purchase skin quiz versus not those birds are not skin quiz post-purchase. So, and then like in every single one where somebody purchased the mini kit, I use all the information that they gave me from their skin quiz to communicate to them in a really hyper-personalized manner.
And you can see over there on the revenue and the revenue per recipient it's you know, it's, it's 50% better than my first time post-purchase customers, which is a 90 day flow. So that's like an insanely better. Right. And it's, it's two X the revenue at 50% higher revenue per recipient. So again, just like a shameless plug for, if you get information from like these people Mmm. Use it to communicate to them because they want to like, feel like they, you heard them. Right. So, okay. You can go ahead now. Yeah. Wow. Hmm. Did you want to ask me a question about this? Or can I just,
Adrianne Verheyen (24:45):
That you're just taking a drink and heading or diving into it. There's an example of one an email, the best performing emails within their post-purchase file. and it's timely based on what they know about how long a full sized toner will last, a customer. and so, yeah. Talk to us a little about obviously how you incorporate emails like this and your post-purchase flow, and then, the sort of LTV increase just to sum it up, that you've seen since launching this game place.
Kohlman Verheyen (25:16):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, number one, the, the joke around four by 400 is that like, if you like it, it won't perform. So it's just like a, but this is one of the few examples where I really, really, really liked this email and I really liked this concept and it's performing and I'm so stoked about it. So the top part where like, looks like there's a blank thing just to the left of the mini Rosemary toner, which is one of our products, that's included in every single one of the skin quiz kits, is that's like that block right there. And then also each one of those four bottles at the bottom, it says unopened plenty left, barely any left and I'm all out right. To represent. it says click the bottle above that best represents your kit right now. Each one of those takes you to a different place, it's actually hosted by Typeform, which is like kind of cheating in my book, but I built it. So I don't care. it's a, it's like a little kind of survey that says like, Oh, it looks like you've, you haven't yet opened your Rosemary toner. Can you tell me, like, on a scale of like one to four, like how excited are you to open it? Or like it says, Oh, it looks like you're starting to use your Rosemary toner. And so from this we learned like two really critical pieces of information, number one, and all of this, by the way, because it's in form gets stored back on the customer profile in Klayvio it tells us how frequently the person uses the product.
Right. And it tells us because this sends on day 15 of the right, which is like the day that we expect stuff to like run out. so it tells us like how much people use it and how much they like it. Right. And so that like segments out into like, whatever, four by four different categories. So like 16 different permutations that somebody could be in based on their enjoyment and how much they use and, and like use case scenarios and stuff like that. And then also it it's like it's making a ton of money because people engage with this thing they click through and then it sends us back to, you know, once they're done with the type form, once they're done with the short survey, it sends them back to the website and then they go make another purchase, like $44,280 against 2,800, 2,900 people is like, that's phenomenal for, for like probably 10th email and the flow on day 15.
Like that's, that's like super good performance. So anyways, like it's just another one of those things where like, you can engage with the people and you can like reach out to them and communicate with them and like have this conversational kind of manner. and it's and then you can use that information, like to communicate with them better. and it just like creates like a, a little bit more wholesome, I think of like a relationship between a brand and the customer, but, AOV and LTV increase, single product funnels. We saw around a 45 to $50 AOV and LTV increase in the first 30 days. And 60 days was, it was like maybe up to, I don't know, it was like, it was like six bucks in the first 30 and then another three in the next 30. So it was like nine bucks.
So what does that 20, 25% increase over the but against like a 45 or $50 AOV. Mmm. When we rolled out the skin quiz, the like, it was instead of just like a single product with like a low AOV, it was a bundle that had a bigger AOV. Right. so AOV was a hundred dollars and then LTV increased, uh, $25 in the first 30 days. And then, another $25 in the next 30 days. So by the first 60 days, your LTV was up to $150. Now, how much would you spend it? Like on a customer if you're trying to get one to one on, in the first 60 days, but you'll never, like, if you wanted one to one in the first 60 days, like you could spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on Facebook. Right. Like, cause you're trying to win at a 0.8, like a 0.7, like on a one day click and then delayed and then like posted Facebook attribution. So, Oh, that's so we found like we could buy customers for $75. Right. And like make a ton of money more reasonably, like we'd buy customers for $30 and then yeah. It's just like fuels all of our new customer acquisition.
Adrianne Verheyen (29:50):
Yeah. Awesome. Okay. So, obviously we invested in convincing you to test a quiz, for your brand. if you weren't convinced before, I hope you are now. but obviously we went through more of like the results, the customer journey, and there's so many, obviously practical and operational steps that go into building this out. We have a full training for you guys on that. It's an hour long, there's two downloads. If you type in that URL, it'll take you to, where to watch that, to be able to build out how we go from basically idea ideation to execution, and then to like testing the effectiveness of a new offer, like the skin quiz offer. So had there. and you can also email me with any questions. My email's there in the bottom. Right. and uh, yeah, like I said, at the beginning, I've had a community admission.
Adrianne Verheyen (30:36):
We do like a ton of trainings. Like these, I'm not here to pitch you I'm out of time. but we would love to have you, if you guys are looking for more, step-by-step super practical trainings like this that are backed by all of CTC and four red 400 data for our brains that we're running on paid. So let me know, hit me up email, go check out that URL if you want the free training. And, uh, Stu says, I don't think the link is working. I will. Okay. Yeah. We'll figure that out. Might have to email it to you guys. It worked for me and my team. but I will. Thanks Stuart. Yeah. You might have to put in the full HTTPS, Jennifer says, have you tried this quiz funnel on apparel brands? No, we don't have any apparel brands, so we haven't personally tested it for that. And then real quick, Coleman Stu asked, do you use the native integration for Klayvio and type form or do you use Zapier
Kohlman Verheyen (31:35):
Native, native. Cool. Thank you, sir. The one drawback to the native, if you like, or trying to go deep on it is that Typeform only integrates with Klayvio once an hour. So that means that like at update hourly. Yeah. Yeah. And so it'll send out your flows like hourly instead of immediately,
Adrianne Verheyen (31:56):
Instantly. That explains why sometimes when I take a quiz on a new brand, my email takes forever to get to me. Okay. Awesome. thank you guys. Alright. we are out Eddie. Anything else I need to do before we wrap this up? Okay. All right, guys. Enjoy the rest of the summit.