Brandon Amoroso, Mariah Parsons, Noah Rahimzadeh
Mariah Parsons 00:03
Hello and welcome to Retention Chronicles, a podcast sponsored by Malomo, a shipment tracking platform that helps ecommerce brands turn order tracking into a profitable marketing channel. On this podcast, we welcome leading DTC brands and experts to chat about all things customer retention, and E commerce. We absolutely love highlighting all the amazing things that our customers are doing in the post purchase space. If you like what you hear, be sure to check out our website, gomalomo.com. Maybe you'll even be featured on this podcast someday in the near future, who's to say, to help us continue to bring new guests and information to you. Please be sure to subscribe to this podcast, wherever you like to listen. In this episode of retention Chronicles, I am so excited because we are joined by the amazing Brandon Amoroso. He's the founder and CEO at electric marketing. And we're also joined by our very own Director of Partnerships here at Malomo, Noah Rahimzadeh. Electric marketing is a Shopify agency located in Miami. And what they really do is amazing work for all the brands that they work with. And they improve retention and LTV through a lot of different strategies. All under the umbrella of marketing, we'll share about Brandon and learn all about what exactly his team does. But I don't want to give away too much in the intro. He'll also go into how that process can differ between subscription and non subscription brands. But you'll hear him talk about all the creative ways that he's seen brands enact a subscription program and recommends that every brand no matter what can have one, you'll also be given multiple use cases and creative ways to leverage information from multiple technology platforms to really pull together your marketing stack. And speaking of tech, Brandon shares his golden tech stack for what he believes every Shopify brand should have low hanging fruit table stakes, all that jazz. And if you've ever wondered about how you can get a customer to come back if they've had a bad experience, or what can go wrong if you segment but don't personalize the customer experience. Keep listening. Welcome to retention Chronicles. Today we are joined by Brandon at electric marketing and our very own Noah, who's our new Director of Partnerships. I'm thrilled to have this conversation with both of you. I've been waiting for this entire week, it is now Thursday, to get down and have a moment to chat about electric Of course, and then all the amazing things that you're doing for the brands that you work with. Brandon, and then Noah I mean, you've already made such an impact on our team. So it's been incredible to get to work with you so far. And I can't wait wait to you know, pick both your brains. See, you know, all the amazing insights that you have. So with that, I thought we could get started with some intros. Brandon, if you could kick us off, like how you got into the like E commerce b2b space and then Noah will follow up with you.
Brandon Amoroso 03:25
Awesome. Sounds good. Well, thanks for having me. I am the founder and CEO of electric marketing. We are a 45 person Shopify agency, based out of Miami, and we primarily focus on improving retention and increasing lifetime value, which is why we work with Malomo. So much. Some quick context. So at least how I got here. I started back in high school, interning for a direct consumer wine company, based out of Santa Monica called a wine insiders, who is owned by drinks.com. And so I did the typical like social media intern stuff, ended up taking a gap year and working there full time as a online media manager. And then when I went to school at SC, I worked there for part time, had my classes on Tuesday and Thursday. And then I was in office Monday, Wednesday, Friday with them about like two years into school, left to freelance for Shopify businesses in and around the LA area, usually like one to two person shops, who sold some sort of a like craft product. So they're very like, they're very cool products like they were really interesting. And they were extremely skilled in their craft, but they like they were good at that they were not good at selling things online. So it was a perfect opportunity for me to be able to work for people and start to build out reviews and case studies and I would work for free or very cheap just to try and get some more experience and some more recognition. Then, about a month before graduation, I was able to hire one full time team member, and then almost three years to date, we've just been scaling ever since. So, at about that time, and it was like May of 2019, June of 2019, we primarily focused on SEO and content. But fast forward to today, we're primarily focused on lifecycle and retention. And as a component of that email, and SMS is our biggest service offering, website design and development is second. And then SEO and content and organic social are complementary to the two. But every brand that we're working with now, for the most part, we are like hands on the keyboard within their email and SMS accounts, and we're helping them from the Shopify, like, consultative approach standpoint. And also, how do we improve retention and increase lifetime value?
Mariah Parsons 05:47
Yeah, awesome. One quick question before you get into your intro. No. What do you like? What do you think you took with you from those internships because you said like, it's complimentary. Now, that social media strategy, which is so interesting that you like started out your career in that, and now you see it as like, it's a complementary to like SEO and all of that.
Brandon Amoroso 06:07
Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me from the the internship or honestly, the, like the mentorship from the executive team, and getting to sit in on like how they were structuring the organization growing the team, because when I started with them, they were probably like six or seven people. And now today they're at, so I got their growth, and there are more, sort of SAS oriented, so they also have the whole like having to deal with investors and going out for fundraising, which we don't have to deal with. So that was really enlightening. So I think that was the most valuable impact of that was like how to start build and scale a business both from like an operational standpoint, and all the non glamorous stuff, like taxes and but also the more important aspects of like building a team and culture and everything that goes into that. But as a great foot in the door to like the marketing world, and got to sort of where a bunch of different hats and understand what I was, like, truly great at. And part of the reason why I wanted to start Electric is like when I was doing the freelancing, it was primarily, I think every service I was doing was like a seven out of 10. Because like, I can't be an expert, web designer and expert email and SMS person and expert in the lifecycle and retention, but you are getting the benefit of the cohesive strategy. Whereas now, it's 10 out of 10 on everything, do you still get the cohesive strategy? Because we have specialists in those particular areas? We still have the one person who's driving that overarching strategy.
Mariah Parsons 07:40
Yeah, that's very insightful. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. I find like in marketing, you can wear a lot of hats. I mean, it's just it shows with electric, you know, all the amazing things, things that you can do and have been doing. Okay, so no, now give your spiel, if you will.
Noah Rahimzadeh 07:57
Well thank you Mariah for hosting. It's good to be back together with with Brandon, we had our first ever meeting at shop talk. And he's like, the most epic place that a couple gardeners, I guess could could meet for the first time.
Mariah Parsons 08:15
Yeah, can't really beat that.
Noah Rahimzadeh 08:17
Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't ask for a better first meet. So yeah, so as Mariah mentioned, I am one of the newest hires to the Malomo team came over here to build out a formal partnerships program. Which what's really nice, I think, is that Malomo has done an amazing job of building like organic momentum through partners, both on the agency and the tech side. Obviously, point in case being being Brandon is a great example of what they've been able to garner without like, a specific focus on partnerships are a person leading it. And now I've been brought on to sort of double down on on those efforts and explore new market opportunities through partnerships. Before this, out of school, I started my own healthcare IT company. And that's actually where I met the founders of Malomo, Yaw and Anthony, they, they built our initial MVP for for our app. So I've known them for seven or eight years now. We stayed close throughout those years. And even after I left safekeeping, which is the company I started. We had regular meetings. And I've been close to Malomo for really since inception. So we're excited to join the team. Once I left the company that I started, which is still operating today, but I don't I'm not involved on a day to day basis. I went to sort of the enterprise marketing technology space where I spent the last three or four years at a couple of different companies starting with return path and you remember that airship, which of the mobile marketing platform? And last was that, like, so really excited to be in a new space, sort of the EECOM, Shopify and Clay Do world. The you know, just in a few short weeks that I've been here, I can see the tremendous opportunities, very exciting. Lots of energy in the space. And yeah, excited to be here. I actually, I have a question for Brandon, based on what what he kind of talked about in Mariah this, this was Mariah and I had a one on one this morning. And we were talking about the how retention has become this like blanket term. Right. So Brandon, I'm curious how you define retention, because I hear it asked on prospect calls, and I, you're our customer success team talk about retention with our customers, and everybody sort of has a different meaning or it means something different to them in their business. So I'm curious from you know, how you think about driving value to your customers? How do you define retention?
Brandon Amoroso 11:04
Yeah, I mean, for me, I think retention is very simple, which shows that you keep your existing customers. It's even, like more straightforward when it's a subscription program, because we just all solely focus on churn. And like that is the definition of success when it comes to retention marketing. So like, that's the overarching thesis behind it. There's like 1000, different things that go into improving retention, strategy, and even more tactics that you can put in place to try and keep people with your brand for longer. But I think the only thing where maybe differs and how we approach it is we kind of look at retention for one shot customers and retention for subscription customers a little bit differently. But other than that, the goal of retention is just people there and purchasing, and then ultimately, if you keep them they're purchasing, it's gonna increase lifetime value. And it's just gonna make your business more successful in the long run.
Mariah Parsons 12:00
Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, no, you hit it right on the head, like, that's why we're here, right? It's called our podcast is called Retention Chronicles. And I think that segues nicely, like, Brandon, can you go into depth about kind of like how the process differs based off of like subscription or non subscription, repeat purchases?
Brandon Amoroso 12:21
Yeah. So for brands that have both, you really have to think about, there's just certain customers who don't want to be on a subscription program. And so you don't necessarily need to force them into it, either. And so the way that we approach those two is different. And it's part of the reason why we'll utilize tools like Malomo, so that we can speak to the One Shot customers versus the subscription customers differently, not only in our, like promotional campaigns that we're sending out via email and SMS, but also in our transaction with earnings and flows as well. So on the one shot side, there are obviously a lot of touch points that try to push subscription adoption, because it's no secret that every brand would rather have the customer as like a subscription customer. But like, if that doesn't pan out, how do we make sure that we still keep a healthy relationship with the One Shot customer, and understand that there's hundreds, if not 1000s, not 10s of 1000s of customers in our database that have placed five or more orders or 10, or more orders that aren't on a subscription, and that we still need to make sure that we are treating them in the same regard as we are the subscription customers? Because I've seen some brands have a tendency to be like, Oh, well, you only get access to all these 1000s of perks. If you're a subscriber, it's like, well, I've, I've ordered from you 10 times, like why do I have to be on your subscription program to get access to the benefits. So one, like interesting, actual use case with with a client of ours, they will for anybody that turns like off the subscription program. And it's not like super advertised from the beginning, because obviously they'd rather have them on a subscription program. But if you turn, you'll be invited to become sort of like a one shot regular customer, where you still get the same discount that you would if you were a subscriber, and it's just on a certain cadence that you're being given this dynamic code. And then you can choose to use and purchase as needed, but you're still getting all the same perks and benefits that go with the subscription program. So I thought that was a really interesting sort of use case of how you can still keep those one shot customers engaged.
Noah Rahimzadeh 14:36
Are there are there specific industries or verticals, based on the brands that you work with that? subscription is like a no brainer, and others where it's a little bit harder to to build a solid substance subscription program or is your general philosophy like every company should be thinking how can I how can I build a A subscription program and drive LTV.
Brandon Amoroso 15:03
Almost every company can have a subscription program. If there's some words, the actual product itself, like the main purchase is the one that is subscribable to so if you're a consumable brand, like coffee, or if you're a skincare brand, you are going to purchase, let's say, a bag of coffee, and then you're gonna get another one in a month. So that's the subscription program, it's very straightforward. Obviously, anything that can be consumed should have a subscription program option. The second is companies that have a hero product that isn't necessarily able to be subscribed to. So one example is, like we have a, we had a client that sold a, like a cold plunge pool. And like a lot of CrossFit people who use very expensive it was like $5,000, like one time purchase, but we want to think about, like, how can you incorporate some sort of a subscription program here, because they were doing really well, but everything was just a one shot purchase? And then that was it. And so, like introducing things like maintenance programs, like additional accessories that come on to the tub, but like the maintenance program was a monthly subscription, the like, Wouldn't how do we look at merch, like we have another company that does a boot like sort of manufacture company, where it's primarily apparel, but to build like brand equity, and loyalty, they sell a box that they include a bunch of random, like really cool, like branded apparel and other stuff in it every month at a very discounted rate to do it doesn't even really drive huge profit. But it is an LTV driver, and it increases retention and loyalty a lot. So that's another example of how you may be able to look at like a company like Redwing shoes like well, how did they have a subscription program, that's maybe one thing that they could think about. So I'd be hard pressed to think of a company that couldn't have some sort of a creative approach to subscriptions. Even like even looking at that cold plunge company, for example. Maybe they will get digital subscriptions, where you get access for $5 a month and get a bunch of educational content from doctors and athletes and this and that about how to use the the plunge pool, but also like how to focus on other benefits that could come with it. So there's a lot of opportunity in the subscription space. For some it's just very easy. Like if it's coffee, right? Subscribe to it.
Noah Rahimzadeh 17:34
Yeah. When, when thinking about growing a subscription subscription program, what are some like best practices in terms of channels that that brands leverage or that you help them leverage? Maybe even thinking about like, a stack technology stack that helps. That helps with those sorts of goals as well.
Brandon Amoroso 18:02
Yeah, for for driving subscription growth, right? Yep. So I think the most important thing is to be able to have the integrations into your CRM that allow you to segment which then allows you to personalize. Without segmentation, you can't do personalization. And so that's why we use clay vo with every brand that we work with, because clay Vo is the hub that all other apps built into. So not only are we using the WeMo and Klaviyo. But we're using ribeye, we're using a kendo, we're using multi line, we're using super affiliate, there's a bunch of different or octane inquire labs for zero party data. All that like if you were to look at some of these contact profiles in clay, VO, you're like, holy shit, like I can't believe how much I know about this person. It's kind of creepy, almost. But with all of that data comes the opportunity to segment and then personalize. So to increase subscription adoption, it's really important to leverage that information to nurture the customer and get them into like that subscription program or even very simply know, like, Hey, this is a one shot customer. So why don't we like plug the subscription program a lot throughout their transactional journey. And that's what we do with Malomo. And what we did with Soylent, like the one shot transactional flow, and the order tracking page talks a lot about the benefits and perks of the subscription program because we want to use that as a funnel for the subscription program. So I think that is really the most important thing is that you're intentional with your communication and utilize the data that you have for segmentation which leads into personalization. And I see so many times like brands will segment but then they don't personalize so like the segmentation is done to get out of campaign but you're not using that segmentation to actually personalize the content within the email or the text itself. And like the next step after that is personalizing your website based off of the data that you have in your CRM. That is, I'd say definitely more advanced, and is usually what we see with with larger brands that that do that. But to be able to have your website like change for repeat customers, or to change if you're a subscription customer coming to the website is extremely powerful. Or be like you show up on the website. And you know, okay, this person said, they have problems with dry skin on your skincare site. So the first thing they see is like a little recommendation pop up in the bottom left corner, like, Hey, John, like we know you have dry skin, check out this new product that we just released. Little things like that go along with.
Noah Rahimzadeh 20:45
Yes. What a little bit more of a specific question. But what tools do you use? Or if it's a tool for that recommendations?
Brandon Amoroso 20:56
Yeah, so for the for like product recommendations, we're always using rebuy, because that allows us to like rebuy as the AI engine that'll dynamically recommend the products based off of what they're going to be most likely to purchase. So that's what we use from like a product recommendation standpoint. On the website side of things to be able to like personalized content based on who the visitor is, you can use things like Google Optimize Optimizely, there's yield fi as well. There's a couple of other tools like nosto that help with personalization on a website. Those are all different tools that could potentially be utilized there.
Noah Rahimzadeh 21:32
I'm happy you brought up a kendo because we're doing the event in in Santa Monica within a couple of weeks, which I'm super excited about. And Mariah and I were actually talking about how kendo could fit in driving subscriptions as well from like, a ratings and reviews and, and user generated content standpoint. So do you have any examples of how that has been influential in in driving? Whether it's subscription, specifically or or LTV more broadly?
Brandon Amoroso 22:06
Yeah. So I think with kendo, the reason why we find it so valuable is not only are you able to, like ask for reviews, but in that review process, collect customer demographics and like product attributes. So like we could ask, and when we do this for our skincare brands, like What's your age range? Who did you purchase this for? What sort of skin concerns do you have? So those three things right there now get passed over into Klaviyo. And we can use in campaigns and flows and our entire personalization strategy. Then the second thing is, like, if you leave a positive review, you automatically get dropped into a flow include you because we're going to ask you to now refer a friend, because like you just left a positive review. So why wouldn't we use that as an opportunity to get you into the referral program. And then on the flip side, if you leave a negative review, let's route you down the proper path and use that as an opportunity to sort of win and earn back your trust as a customer. And that one's actually the most powerful one. I don't know what the study is, but there's one out there that basically shows if you have a negative experience with the brand as a customer, but then the brand goes out of its way to make it right, then you're going to be more likely to stay with them longer than if you just had a positive experience from the get go. Because like it shows that the brand is reaching out and cares and has that one to one interaction. So that's why like text is such a powerful communication channel. And the Kendo. Attentive integration is really helpful for us as well, because that's super conversational. It's not like email support it very much. So it's like you're texting with the brand. And is it an incredible customer experience play?
Mariah Parsons 23:43
Awesome. I've never heard of that. Yeah. Like dropping someone into flow based off of review. Brandon, what is like, what are some cool use cases, if you have any of like, how to gain that loyalty back if a bad review is left? So is it like they're offering a discount on another? On another product? Like I know, you mentioned like SMS is kind of the maybe the method of communicating but what like what mechanisms? Have you seen brands do that?
Brandon Amoroso 24:14
Yeah. So to win it back, it's very, like you can do some automated things that as like the first touch point in clave you but then it's very important that you have like a Customer Experience team that is able to actually hop in and start to one on one with that customer get to the bottom of whatever happened. Because nothing could be more annoying than leaving a negative review. And then like getting some automated boiler plate response or like, oh, we'll be with you in 48 to 72 hours. It's like well, you've already you've already lost me at that point. So really, I mean, it's it's not super complicated. It's just reach out to them and conversate in a way that you would want to be dealt with If you're on the other end, like we're all consumers here. And so I think a lot of times brands try to like, overcomplicate things. But just think about how you would want to be treated as a customer who just, I don't know, had their product delayed for three weeks, or who had their product damaged when it was arrived. And, like, never asked, unless you're selling like a $5,000 product, never asked for the customer to send it back either, like, keep whatever it was, and like, we'll just send you something else for free. Like the cost of having it gets sent back is not worth it. If you ever shop at chewy, like, it's basically like up to $300. Like, they will just tell you to keep it or like go donate it or something. Which is a really, it's also really like strong customer experience, because that showcases the brand's values as well. So I wouldn't say there's any like special trick, or tip or trick. But yeah.
Mariah Parsons 25:54
Yeah, no, that's, that's very fair, it makes a lot of sense. Like, I mean, to the point with chewy, like being so confident in their product to say like, oh, up to $300, you can keep it like, it isn't even about the product or the sell to us. It's like your experience and your satisfaction with it. I mean, like even just hearing that as a consumer like, oh, okay, like, they trust their products so much. So why wouldn't I, you know? So do you think like, why would you say that brands are doing this or like trying to over simple or overcomplicated. It's like bandwidth of just like support teams are.
Brandon Amoroso 26:27
So many companies look at it as like a sunk cost, I feel like they try to make your service as cheap as possible. And like, try to outsource it to whoever comes in that like the lowest price, which is absolutely not the way to do it. So like, we work with awesome OS a lot on our customer service. Like for our clients, because we know like they're very well trained. And they're going to create a extremely sort of personalized experience from a customer service standpoint for for the customers. And part of the reason why that's possible is because we get all the data like integrated into gorgeous, or whatever ces tool, there is like all the data that we're collecting from Canada and from these other places, so we can reach out to that person know their entire history with the brand and know all the zero and first party data. And like you need to be skilled in order to communicate with somebody in an effective way and leverage that material. So I think a lot of times it comes down to brands don't think like you can't see, okay, well, this customer service center is actually in fact, increasing retention and increasing lifetime value. Because it's not the direct input, like, oh, we spent $1,000 on Facebook ads, we made $4,000 in revenue from those dads. So I think it's it's just, that's the biggest hurdle I've seen with brands. And then the band was thing too. Like, I can't even tell you how many brands have an SMS program and don't have anybody replying to the texts was the most annoying thing ever, like just don't don't have an SMS program if we can't have the people there to reply to it. Because if I'm a consumer, and you're going to spam my phone, like right next door, my mom texts me, I'm gonna expect that you apply to me when I reply to you. So that's one of my biggest pet peeves.
Mariah Parsons 28:15
Yeah, it's a great, I mean, it's a great call out too. Because if, you know if you're like you said you're in their inbox, and it probably works against you, right, if if you're offering SMS, but then you're truly not offering it, you know? Yeah, so that's a great distinction between the two.
Noah Rahimzadeh 28:31
Yeah. Have you seen? Like, have you seen successful SMS programs leverage automation in lieu of? Like, I guess if it's, for a specific purpose, like sign up for our subscription program, or take advantage of this offer? Are you saying that, you know, in an ideal world, you would always have somebody? A human there to answer a text even if it is like an automated flow? Or are you saying more specifically just for like customer support technicians.
Brandon Amoroso 29:06
So I've seen there's like a happy medium, there should always be someone there like monitoring, because some people will even get frustrated, like with the automated flow and then like that could be a potentially negative experience. Like we try to make things as automated as possible with the conversational flows. So simple things are like a welcome flow. Or welcome quiz, like asking people do you prefer like light medium or dark coffee reply one, two, or three, and then branching them down a certain path and saving that for segmentation later on, but also personalizing the journey. They're now going down in an automated fashion, which that addresses a lot. Same in the post purchase, do we've done replenishment flows, where we just ask customers in an automated way, when do you want to be reminded to reorder? Like, just reply with one of these four different options, and we'll send you the order reminder automatically. So there again, we're leveraging automation to not have to have a person do it. But a lot of times people will, like, reach out, whether it's like you just send out a campaign and they have questions about the offer. Like, obviously, you should be replying if they're asking you, How do I like leverage this discount code? Not not reply help to get patched through to customer service email, it's just doesn't make any sense. But the really cool thing that we started to test out with attentive is concierge is that their concierge Yeah. Like if you have a contact who views a product on the website, and then you can set the delay thereafter. Like we either do it anywhere from like two to 10 minutes, there's a purchase hasn't been made. Or if an Add to Cart event hasn't occurred, there is a text automatically sent out asking the customer like if they need any help. And then if they reply, then the CES team starts to interact with them. And they build out like a playbook of how we can get these customers to convert and guide and nurture that that buying process. same thing would apply with like a live chat widget on the site through a gorgeous or something. It's becoming like there's so many brands and in every industry now, like if you think about skincare food, even like within food, like healthy soda, there's like five healthy soda brands. Now, there, you need to be thinking about how like just beyond your product, you can be differentiating your experience, because the experience is what matters most. And one of the easiest ways to do that is just to make it look like you care about your customers. And one of the simpler ways to do that is through providing those support options and the one to one personalization.
Mariah Parsons 31:47
So cool to hear you talk about a tentative con two years, because we had like in parallel come on the podcast a little bit earlier in the season. And he kind of he touched upon it a little bit. But I mean, it's just so cool to see them, you know, fully roll out the product and have your team like experimenting how you can use that with the brands that you're helping so I mean, it's it's so I'm just this is part of the reason why like ecommerce, just tech and all of these partners, like it's so interesting to see how you really can like intersect all of them and create that experience that will set you apart like it really does go the extra mile when you know you're in the consumer shoes of like, Oh, they're going the extra, they're putting in the extra effort to see what it's like in my shoes and what I would want like, as a customer, and you know, it helps you trust them. And yeah, I think it's just like very powerful. So it's awesome to hear you talk about it.
Brandon Amoroso 32:44
It's interesting how like the e Commerce Industry has evolved versus the b2b. Like, I'm not an expert on the b2b side of things. But it feels like, at least from my experience, HubSpot, and like Salesforce are the preeminent tools in that industry. And they basically offer the full suite of services that you would need. So like us as a business, we only use HubSpot. And we have like 15 different tools that work within that ecosystem, same if you are on Salesforce, but in the E commerce world, like that doesn't work like you can't like you have to go actually go find the individual tool, and then have them all integrate with one another. So it's just it's interesting how the two have sort of been built up differently. But with that comes, I think like better and faster innovation, you just have to have somebody tie it all together, which is like how we position ourselves, Shopify experts that are going to make these 15 different tools all work with one another and create these cohesive customer journeys and retention experiences, so that we can like leverage the best in class tools. And in a way that makes sense.
Noah Rahimzadeh 33:49
When you so you know, kind of piggybacking off of what Mariah said, and then following up with what you said, Brandon, when you think about because there are so many different tools, right like there, there's this like infinite amount of brands that are all vying for, for market share. But then there's, it feels like today almost just as many tools that these brands can be leveraged to capture that market share. So I'm curious, because there's so much opportunity, so many different things that can be leveraged, what would you say is like table stakes for any for any ecommerce brand? What what is like the table stakes stack, whether it be by like actual solution, or just like category of solution that all ecommerce brands need to have a need to be leveraging?
Brandon Amoroso 34:39
Yeah, so to shamelessly plug my LinkedIn Do it, do it. I put together because this is a question that has come up internally as well as our team continues to get bigger and bigger like making sure that sort of everybody's on the same page and I put together these are the 15 shots To buy apps that I would use to start my own Shopify store in 2022. And I'd say about six or seven of them are absolutely table stakes. And that's seven, eight or more. So like nice to have, but could be really powerful if you're ready for it. Like, I can't tell you how many websites I see have some annoying, like widget, that loyalty program that 10,000 other brands have, like, why, like you're just wasting money, like you haven't really thought through how's this going to impact the customer experience and how you can drive loyalty and retention through this program. So there's definitely like you want to be cautious about and like we've seen some Shopify stores that have 75 apps on them. Like you don't need 75 apps. And your bill is probably insane. But like the table absolute table stakes ones are, for us, at least from a retention standpoint. And we use clay VO and attentive for all the brands that we work with. On the non US side. It'll be interesting to see how that evolves, because like Lady owes us and this product is really improving a lot. And they do have a ton of data like a ton. Like they definitely are the leader in integrations. And sort of right after that is how do we get more data into QlikView and get more data into attentive. So like Malomo a kendo Octane AI and inquire labs are like the biggest four that we use thereafter, as well as rebuy. So that's where it rounds out, like the seven that we're using. Almost always, because with Octane AI we're gathering. Well, not only are we sort of guiding the purchasing decision process, but all those questions that are being answered, are then immediately used in our post purchase flows or in our like, hey, just quiz, you should be checking out this in store to zero party data. You've got to inquire labs for the post purchase survey. And we'll target different questions the first time customers versus returned customers. And so that's really valuable for zero party data, but also, just like general brand improvement. So asking things like what would you like us to create next? How can we better serve you as a customer, and like the amount of feedback that we get is extremely, extremely valuable. And then Malomo allows us to then take all the data that we are getting into clay VO and use that to create personalized transactional journeys, which is the most like it's literally the lowest hanging fruit and always drives a ridiculous ROI for every brand that we start with on email and SMS. And it's not very it's not very well adopted, like we've on boarded probably 12 new email and SMS clients in the last few months and not a single one has had transactional emails outside of the Shopify and recharge native ones. Which is, it's awesome, because like we're gonna come in and produce these crazy results for them, like from day one. But it just goes to show how much sort of opportunity there still is left for all of these brands in the space. But yeah, I think those are really like table stakes. ribeye isn't necessarily a, like a zero party data aggregation play for us, but it's super powerful and increasing EO v. And also in retention because like their reorder landing pages that we use all the time, like that's one way that we make it easier for our one shot customers to stay a customer just drive them back to the landing page that has their cart pre populated, and then some educational content, some upsells and then, like a free shipping threshold bar or like a gift purchase threshold bar. Yeah, but I think those are like the seven or eight that are table stakes.
Noah Rahimzadeh 38:48
Yeah, we we love the team that ribeye we're actually probably shouldn't talk about this too much yet but we're going to be offering our customers a great deal to work with ribeye and if they turn on in Brandon, maybe you can talk to this a little bit as well how to leverage ribeye and Malomo together in the purchase experience but if they turn on the rebuy widget in in a Malema power tracking pages, they can they can get a free trial free buy and see how those personalized product recommendations produce for them in the post purchase experience which as we've seen from our mutual customers, there's there's some significant lift that is that is out there.
Brandon Amoroso 39:38
I think the greatest thing about rebuy is how applicable it is across the entire customer journey. You get it both pre purchase like the slideout car you have the product recommendations you have the in checkout upsells you have the post purchase one Click Upsell then you have all their metrics with clay vo than they you have your integration Even with you, you all on the on the tracking pages. So like you just sort of killed five different apps with that one tool because there's like an app that does this. There's an app that does that there's an app that does this. Well, now it's just like your hub for personalized product recommendations and increasing a OB. Yes, I'm like a ribeye fanboy.
Noah Rahimzadeh 40:22
So I put that label on myself as well.
Mariah Parsons 40:26
Also ribeye fan girl and electric marketing can girl too. But I loved I wanted to say to for our listeners will put your brand in your LinkedIn post if they want to, you know, go in and read more about, you know, I forget the title that you said, but like Shopify must have lists or talk shop, you know, but you know what I'm talking about, but we'll make sure our listeners have access to it. And it's awesome just to hear you talk through like how each step you're pulling in those apps. And if you have a quality app that integrates how all that data can be related, and then just go back to the customer experience. And I wanted to ask you, maybe this is more of a like, meta question. But why do you think like the the poach post purchase space focusing on it is, like you said, that low hanging fruit like not a ton of your brands, like all 12 of them, that you just on boarded? weren't really utilizing the space? Like, can you kind of pinpoint why you think that is? Or is it? Is it like a bigger question at hand?
Brandon Amoroso 41:34
I mean, so often, you just sort of set it and forget it. Like it just comes native with Shopify, and recharges. And like, until, honestly, even until like a year and a half ago, I didn't think about it as like a revenue driver either. And as soon as you position at the rounds as like, hey, this can drive revenue, well, then they start to care about it. And so I think it's just that education component. And like, until I spoke with you all, I didn't realize how much somebody would look at that order tracking page, even though I was doing it consumer. And then, like, when I looked at the Shopify transactional pages, I was like, okay, like, yeah, obviously, this is a no brainer. Why would you not be doing this? I think it's, I think that's the biggest thing is just like, education. And historically, if you shot from the biggest brands, your transactional emails are just transaction. I mean, there's like nothing going on with them. It's just like an order printout. And here's when your order is gonna get here. That's basically it.
Mariah Parsons 42:35
Yeah, it's like purely informational. At best. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. That's, I mean, I kind of had the similar experience when I started here at Malomo have like, oh, my gosh, I never realized how much you check that tracking page. And like that stat. I think it's like five points. 4.6 4.6. Thank you, we have a fact check. So I'll throw it in there at the end, just to make sure. But like seeing that number, it's like, Oh, my God, you do not realize when you're just kind of like doing it. You don't realize how much effort like goes into actually checking it. So I relate to like, kind of the knowledge and education piece, like you're not really thinking about it. And then it's just kind of, it's brought up through one avenue or another and you like, yeah, it kind of clicks. Like that makes a ton of sense.
Noah Rahimzadeh 43:24
I think what's really interesting is kind of keeping the theme of talking about, you know, investments made in E commerce stack, like not leveraging them in the channel in which your customers are most likely the most engaged most excited about your brand is a miss on garnering, you know, maximum ROI from those other tools like your subscription tool, for example, recharge, if you're not pushing subscription in a post purchase experience when your customers are most excited, especially your first time buyers, who might not even be aware that they can, they can become subscribers in the values of those, like, you're just you're leaving lifetime value. And you're leaving lifetime value on the table.
Brandon Amoroso 44:10
So same goes with like having the order tracking pages customized for those subscribers, and that when you go on it, you're just constantly reminded, here are all the benefits. This is what you get as part of being a subscription customer. Here's how you manage your subscription. And it's just like, standard, like brand awareness tactics. Like, it's almost obvious that if your emails for transactional and your order tracking pages are branded and customized that like your brand is going to be more top of mind for this customer than the competitor who just has like these really bland Shopify transactional touchpoints going out, and an order tracking page that's used by 40% of the E commerce world. So in that sense, it is like you don't even notice really need data to back that up. Like, it's just some of these things are just common sense, which I think also helps a lot like when you're showcasing this is what's possible. It's like, oh, yeah, like this obviously clicks.
Mariah Parsons 45:11
Yeah, this has been great. And I can see how you took electric marketing. And just with, you know, about an hour's worth of your time, how much knowledge you have, is truly incredible to see, we'll have to have you come back on the podcast because we I think we're just, you know, getting tip of the iceberg type of stuff. But this has been wonderful. So thank you to you both for being so willing to share, you know, your tips and tricks and your opinions and whatnot, one of the things that we love to do is ask about resources that you would recommend. So this can be you know, anything from just like life business, or strictly down to advice, or just like running your own marketing agency, however you want to take it. But I'd love to get resources from you both of what you'd recommend.
Brandon Amoroso 46:01
So I think like, just, YouTube and Google are your most powerful tools, like I everything that we do today. And everything that I've learned has just been Google, or YouTube,
Mariah Parsons 46:13
that's so cool to flag.
Brandon Amoroso 46:17
Go into the account and try it out. And then also, all these tools have like pretty robust help guides and documentation. So it's really on you to expand your knowledge. And that would be the biggest resource I would give, which is kind of a cheating, because like, it's just saying, Google, I read a book, like building a brand story that was really helpful and how to position electric, as we like, sort of started to focus on ourselves a little bit more this year, and like how we're positioning ourselves to the broader market, and like, how to, like, think about your brand and detach yourself from it a little bit. Because some things are so inherently obvious to you, that if you look at it from somebody who's never heard about your company before, like, you can just get gonna get totally lost on you. So we utilize that and how we just built our new one pager, how we re skinned our homepage, I think that book was was a really valuable resource for that.
Mariah Parsons 47:11
Great, yeah, thank you. I'll have to google some stuff now. Brandon. No, but about you.
Noah Rahimzadeh 47:20
Yeah. I'm not going to top Brandon with Google and YouTube, I don't think. But being a little bit newer to the E commerce space, I've found a lot of the content that Shopify and and clay vo produced is really good, like, following their blog, and newsletter type stuff. MC Sharma is a great newsletter to follow. And in the E commerce space, I read all of his stuff. And then I just I, you know, beyond Shopify and clay, VO do follow not just like our partner organizations and their blogs and whatnot, but also, you know, contacts at those companies that are always publishing very interesting takes and tips and tricks about the E commerce space. So a lot of the technology partners that that we discussed today all produce really good contact, so and are, you know, definitely consider to be leaders in their respective verticals or technology spaces. So I would definitely recommend looking looking at those.
Brandon Amoroso 48:33
I'm gonna recommend Malomo podcast too. I mean, podcast is talking to a person Industry Insight. So
Mariah Parsons 48:42
thanks. Thanks, Ryan. I mean, my day, this whole this whole time, I was like, please, please say it. No, that's awesome. Thank you both. Like I said, I mean, well, we'll have to run it back and have a whole other episode dedicated to just diving into retention, because this has been so fun. So thank you both for taking the time to chat and share all your knowledge with our listeners.
Noah Rahimzadeh 49:07
Or see Mariah Brandon, see you at chargebacks in Santa Monica in a couple of weeks. See you soon. Thank you. Thanks, Mariah.
Mariah Parsons 49:20
And for our fact check today, we actually have a couple. The first one I stumbled over, but it is 4.6. And when I talk about that number, when I was listening back to the episode, I realized that never said exactly what that is. So customers track or sorry, customers check their tracking page, an average of 4.6 times per order. So that's a crazy amount of traffic going to your tracking page. That's why it was brought up in that conversation, but to confirm it is 4.6 times. I also shared Brandon's LinkedIn post in the episode outline and website page, so you can all go look at that and read more. You'll also Hear no one Brandon talk about seeing each other in Santa Monica that was at the charge X conference in early May. So this episode is coming out a couple of weeks after that. And then the only other fact check that I wanted to say is Brandon mentions chewy, chewy is an e commerce Store for pet food products and supplies. Most of you are probably familiar with it, but I just wanted to emphasize that is what Brandon was referring to. And so with that, thank you for listening. I really hope you enjoyed this episode. It was chock full of great information. If you did enjoy this episode, please please, please subscribe to retention Chronicles on wherever you're listening currently, and rate and review the show. We'd love to hear your feedback. Until next time, bye y'all.