BFCM Capitalizing on Holiday Momentum

BFCM Recap Full Panel

Check out how companies like Thread, Nomad, and Pura Vida prepare for BFCM

JANUARY 19 2022

The decorations may be put away and the holidays may be winding down but that doesn’t mean the ecommerce world is!

Join us for a panel discussion and Q&A with leading D2C brands and technology partners surrounding BFCM 2021 trends and strategic planning into the new year. You won't want to miss this stellar line-up of panelists that are guaranteed to add value, whether you're new to ecommerce or a leader in the space.

We don't want to give away all the gifts our panelists are going to share, so here's some of the topics we'll be covering:

  • Common trends that emerged this BFCM season
  • The impact of shipping delays and how they affected the holidays
  • Changes in customer buying behavior during the holidays
  • The impact of sustainability options for your customer
  • How brands can capitalize on their holiday growth
  • How to analyze BFCM trends to inform your 2022 strategy and more!


This transcript was completed by an automated system, please forgive any grammatical errors.


brands, customers, sale, product, big, question, purchase, affiliate marketing, bought, holiday season, consumers, discount, holidays, year, marketing, offer, based, email, strategy, testing


Zachary Goodwin, Nevin Jethmalani, Dane Baker, Josh Knopman, John Erck, Mariah Parsons, Chuck Melber, Bryan Smith, Brandon Rowe, Ivette Muller, Dan Brady, McKenzie Bauer, Alicia Gaba

Mariah Parsons 00:03

Everyone so people can still continue to join. But we're a couple minutes in. So we're going to go ahead and get started. First of all, hello, everyone. And thank you for being here. I'm Mariah, and I'm part of our marketing team here at Malomo. Now will be one of our CO hosts along with Alicia, this afternoon. So on behalf of Malomo, thank you to everyone who is here and all of our panelists for taking the time to make it a priority to be here with us today, we very much appreciate it. And we're super excited. So for those of you who are new to Malomo, we are a shipment tracking platform that helps ecommerce brands turn their order tracking into a profitable marketing channel. And so I know at face value that can seem daunting, especially if the post purchase experience is something that's new to you. So we wanted to break it down real quick. So during the customer journey, when the customer presses the buy button, everything that happens after that is considered the post purchase experience. And so with that, that's why we help merchants create those branded shipment tracking experiences that can integrate with the rest of their marketing stack, to drive repeat sales, increase customer satisfaction, lower support tickets, educate consumers and analyze shipment, carrier carrier data information. So with that one of our core values at Malomo is to always be learning something new. And so we thought what better way to do that then to chat with some leading brands and technology partners during a live discussion. So to ensure we provide the most value for you all, we wanted to run through some logistics first. So for those of you who haven't gotten the chance to send in the chat, your location and your role and your industry, please feel free to do so now. And please feel free to continue doing this throughout the whole entire webinar, because we want you all to get as much as you can out of this. So the chat function is yours to have to engage with. Now that being said, if you have any questions, please direct those to the q&a section so that we can keep them organized and address those either during the live discussion or in our q&a section after and we know that this panel is going to be pretty jam packed. So we will have a short break between the panelists. But make sure that you stay tuned for the whole thing as we are giving we have a special giveaway for a special attendee at the very end of it. So with that, I would like to introduce our customer panelists today. So we are joined by Dan Brady, customer success manager at pure Vita, a jewelry and lifestyle brand where giving back is at the very heart of their mission. Chuck Melber, who's the marketing director at Nomad goods, a consumer electronics and accessories brand, that values resourcefulness, seeking adventures, and living in the moment. Nevin Jethmalani, CEO and co founder of Bonjean growth, a New York based growth consulting firm, Brian Smith, a ecommerce director at Ned a DTC brands that helps their consumers feel and live better through their full spectrum hemp products. Josh note Minh director of growth and digital product at caraway, a non toxic ceramic cookware and bakeware brand designed to raise your standards for healthy cooking. And last but certainly not least, we can give our co founder of thread wallets, a DC brand with slim, functional expressive wallets that are designed to fit your lifestyle and your personality. So with that, welcome to all of you, our panelists and attendees alike. Thank you so much for being here. I'm going to hand it off to Alicia GABA, our head of strategy here at Malomo. So Alicia, go ahead and take it from here.

Alicia Gaba 04:07

Hey, everybody, hopefully you can hear me. Okay. Thrilled to be moderating with these folks. So I'll jump right in. One of our motivations to have such a broad panel today was to cover all the trends from the past holiday season. So let's kick things off with Dan. We'd love to hear your thoughts on how you handled your Beefy bfcm preparations at pure Aveda and what results you saw. Sure,

Dan Brady 04:35

well, first of all, I want to thank everyone in attendance and thank Malomo for the opportunity. I really enjoyed being part of the first panel discussion and looking forward to this conversation as well. So I think in speaking with Mariah, the first thing that I kind of wanted to talk about was mostly just some of the findings that I personally saw at pure Vita and with my team. And so these are just some suggestions that I think all Personally for future use, and just some things that I kind of noticed for our brand and our customers. So one thing that I noticed this holiday season was just that we aligned with our marketing team. And whenever we had emails or SMS blasts going out to our customers, we always saw a spike in volume shortly thereafter. So I immediately touch base with marketing, just asked for a copy of when these messages would be sent out to our respective customers, just to make sure that we are staffed appropriately, especially through like our live chat panel. Again, it was no secret that anytime we sent out our email blasts, or SMS blasts or promotions, customers do have the ability for us at least to respond directly to those emails. And of course, I'd like to think that pure Vita becomes top of these customers minds, and probably more likely for them to reach out to us. So that was one thing that I noticed this holiday season was that immediately after we sent out these marketing promotions, we did see a spike in volume. And that's something that I think moving forward will definitely be aligned with marketing on just to make sure that we're staffed accordingly. Again, most especially for live chat. But that was one huge thing that we noticed was that whenever we're sending these out, we would see spikes in volume. So that's just something that I would recommend for any customer success or service managers to be aware of is, you know, when you're sending these out, you should expect to see some spikes and volumes and make sure that your staff accordingly for that. So that was one of my key takeaways from this bfcm holiday season. Another thing was, of course, many companies offer cyber, it's now become almost like a cyber week, right? Where it's not just limited to like a day or two. For a lot of E commerce companies. It's pretty extended. So one thing that I took away from this holiday season was what happens for customers who ordered prior to your sale, or may have missed your sale? How do you handle when people ask for price match adjustments, because that's one thing that we noticed quite a bit was hey, you know, I noticed that you're now offering 50% off, that was our promotion this year 50% off, and in some cases, even a free gift with purchase? So if you're someone who maybe missed out on that sale, how do you as a company handle those requests, when people are asking for retroactive price match adjustments, or maybe they missed out on the sale? They want you to honor that. So that was something is that I did speak with finance, I just let them know, like, Hey, we're getting a lot of demand for people who missed out on the sale. They're really demanding that we you know, retroactively apply these refunds. How do you want us to handle this, this was only my second holiday season with pure Vita. And I know last year, we kind of do a firm line where it was like, hey, you know, it does stay in our policies, if you didn't order during the sale, you know, we don't do price matches, that's not something we do this year, we are a lot more lenient with it. And I was lucky that finance was pretty understanding. And so we just agreed that we had X number of customers that were willing to price match, I'm happy to report that we didn't need to maximize it. And we didn't hit the number that I was allowed. But I thought that was a really good adjustment that we did compared to last holiday season to this holiday season. If someone missed out on the sale, and you have a customer who asked for a price match, I think it's a good policy to just go ahead and honor that. We had customers who were like, I'm not shopping with you again, or I'll just return your items in order to the sales price. At that point, in my opinion, I felt kind of petty being like, yeah, you know, go ahead and return it. And then you can order for the sales price. Like, no matter how you twist it, that's not a very good customer experience. So next year, I know that we'll be sticking with finance, figure out, hey, you know, do we have a set number of customers that we want to allow for this, and just figure out, you know, how lenient you can be with your customer. So that was kind of another key takeaway that I took from this holiday season. Another thing that I really tried to emphasize with my team was just being very, very personal and personalized in our interaction. So you know, if someone had mentioned they were shopping for, you know, granddaughter, grandson, anyone in their life, you know, we really tried to say just personal messages that acknowledge that, hey, these are not just generic shortcuts, or macros templates were real humans were reading your messages. We hope that your granddaughter in Jacksonville, Florida loves the bracelets that she's getting, or, you know, we hope that your niece and Hollywood loves the sweatshirt that you purchased and just really try to include personal messages and of course, plenty of Happy Holidays, wishing you a healthy new year, you know, just things that add that little bit of personal touch. So we created a lot of little shortcuts that I was encouraging the team to use, and we were just a lot of emphasis on that. And also, I think many companies create gift guides around the holiday season that are you know, convenient PDFs for customers to view and get ideas as to what we're offering. So anytime we had questions that were about, you know, sizing or what should I get? I did really ask the team to include our gift guide a lot. I think that's something that marketing did a great job of putting together we want customers to see that you know, If they missed it in our email promotion, we want customers to be aware we put this together for the customers, we want you to be well informed about what we're offering, what Promotions we have. So that was something else that I really emphasize the team is, hey, we have this lovely gift guide, let's make sure that customers are seeing it. So we're sharing that quite a bit. I just want to go through I see we had some people comment in here, it looks like it's just about locations. That's good. I got a question for you again. Yeah, sure, Chuck. Um, for the bfcm, like sale promotion dates, you know, wherever they were, if you guys ran for a week, or just a few days, you know, if the marketing team was omitting recent purchasers from those emails and SMS, or were they sending it to everybody, regardless of past purchase behavior? That's a great question. And I'll honestly, I don't know, but I'd love to try and follow up with you specifically about that. Yeah, that is a really good question. I'm not sure how they were doing that. But in an effort to save our support team, I tried real hard to make sure I was on bidding people that have purchased in the last 30 ish days. Last year, I was a little bit more fast and loose with it. And there was a lot of tickets similar to the ones you're talking about asking for retroactive discounts. And this year, I was much more strict on it with the exception of Black Friday itself. Awesome. Yes, he helped a lot with the band on tickets. Yeah, that's a really good suggestion. I'll have to sync with marketing. Again, we did get a number of people who retroactively asked for it. So if I had to guess maybe we weren't doing that. But I couldn't say with 100% certainty. So that's a good question. I'll have to look into that and get back to you. And then yeah, I think just the last thing I want to add, I know we do have a time limit. And I'm trying to keep my portion under five or six minutes. But the last thing I'd say is, figure out if you have a lot of companies advertise a last day to guarantee like standard shipping to receive your orders in time for Christmas or any other holidays. How do you handle it? If it does not arrive in time? What solutions? Are you offering your customers and try and figure that out? So you're not scrambling? So we kind of just spoke and we said hey, you know if someone orders after the cyber week sale, but before our shipping cutoff date, which this year, I believe we advertised as 12. Nine, how are we going to handle that our simple solution was if you didn't get the sales price, we're going to give you a 50% refund for the inconvenience. If you got the sales price, I got approval from finance, just refund the entire order up to a certain amount. So just figure out what do you do if your orders don't arrive in time for Christmas or whatever other holiday might be included? So those were some of the things that I noticed this particular holiday season and looking forward to making some adjustments next year. And hopefully people in attendance found some of those pointers to be useful.

Alicia Gaba 12:38

Yeah, okay. That was like jam packed with pro tips. That was awesome. Okay, so speaking of shipping, it was pretty unanimous that everybody was worried about shipping delays this past season. So from the last session, I've gotten notes, what we talked about was, we were gonna push things live earlier, ensure you were communicating with your customers just being overly proactive about expected shipping delays. So how were the shipping delays during the actual holiday season? And did you guys see common trends? Was it bad? Not as bad, as expected? And, Chuck, we'll start with you. What did you see at nomad?

Chuck Melber 13:18

I mean, luckily, the media did such a good job latching on to the container getting happening on the coast of California that I think a lot of people were, like, pre trained to expect delays and order in shop early. Okay, I've talked to my mom about it, for example, and I don't talk to her about business, but she's like, Oh, my goodness, did you hear about all these shipping delays that are happening, I'm starting to shop for Christmas in like November one, basically. So I think that helped a lot as far as setting expectations goes. And then for us, we're able to use those messages from the media to also further inform our customer base, let them know, like, hey, this might be a problem. So you probably shouldn't shop early. So to that effect, we did run a sale like November 2, I think, that wasn't as good as Black Friday, Cyber Monday, but it was an extremely transparent sell, where it's like, Hey, here's 20% off, we might have a better sale on Black Friday, but we also might not have inventory then. So if you want to get a discount, now's the time to do it. And we were extremely transparent with the text based email and like, literally told people we're gonna have deeper discounts during Black Friday, but we're not sure what inventory is gonna look like. And that worked out really well. We didn't have a ton of complaints or anything like that. And it was a nice little bump to the sales early early on sales basically. And then as far as like actual like final delivery goes like FedEx ups and stuff for us. It worked out really well. We didn't really have any problems. We were a bit more aggressive with their shipping cut off and Dan it per Vita, I think we cut off at like the 16th or 15th of December. But even then it was like a risky decision. We didn't really have good strong data to support it. But at the same time we wanted to try and get as much as many last minute sales as possible and it worked out well.

Alicia Gaba 15:00

Awesome. It's a Smart Campaign to run. Anyone else want to weigh in on how things went for them?

Nevin Jethmalani 15:07

Yeah. Chuck, I actually have a quick question. How did you How do you think that first sale would have performed had you not said anything about the discounts being as less than Black Friday because we did the same exact thing. And we also pushed it in terms of our last ship dates we actually used one day before, what our warehouse said the last day to ship before Christmas, would we. But we did the same thing just without that transparency. So we just said, Hey, we've got a big sale early, Black Friday, starting at the beginning of November. And it's going to be the same discounts as Black Friday. So shop early, so you don't have to worry about the shipping delays. And you don't have to worry about inventory running out. And we saw a really strong bump in our sales early in the month.

Chuck Melber 15:49

I mean, sales were up year over year, for the beginning of the month. So I I want to assume the email didn't have a negative impact on it. But I also didn't run an A B test on it. So I don't have any strong data there one way or the other.

Nevin Jethmalani 16:01

But just what your what's your feeling? If you thought, you know, maybe you take that copy away and just say, hey, just another sale at the beginning of month, do you think would have performed much better? Or do you think transparency was good?

Chuck Melber 16:12

I think, ultimately, transparency is good for brand and just customer feelings. But yeah, I think if we didn't have that transparency of like, it's going to be better in Black Friday. It probably wouldn't perform better. But then you also throw the caveat of like there might not be product, then I think there's still that sense of urgency, regardless of the fact that might be better discount later. Chuck, if you don't mind me asking what was the difference from like a percentage sales point in terms of what you offered in early November compared to your cyber week? Sale 20 during early November and 30 drinks every week. Okay? And yeah, I really like how you kind of created a sense of urgency by being transparent and just letting people know about inventory issues. I know, we ran out of stock for a lot of our items. I think that could be something we look to implement next year, just being transparent and just saying, hey, you know, if you're, we want to guarantee that you get it, it might be a less discount, but you know, you haven't likely run out of stock. So yeah, we got we were really lucky with supply chain. At the end of the day, we were able to front load a lot of our inbound shipments. So while talking with other marketers, I've heard a lot of companies did have issues with actual inventory during Black Friday, Cyber Monday and into December, of course, but we pretty much made it through unscathed in that regard.

Alicia Gaba 17:31

Awesome. Okay. So Nevin, you consult with a number of brands, I'm curious, was there anything else that was unexpected or surprising, or anything else you saw that went exceptionally? Well?

Nevin Jethmalani 17:44

Yeah, a couple things. One of the big things that I noticed was that the bigger the sale, the better the performance. And I don't mean just, you know, the biggest sitewide sale, I mean, the bigger you could message it. So the brands that did something along the lines of like 40% or 50%, off select styles, plus some kind of site wide sale did really well. So they were able to offer the deep discount, get people to click to the site, check out the site. And then, you know, the discounts weren't as significant on some products, but they still were able to, you know, message that big sale messaging, I think those are the brands that you know, saw the best numbers overall. And from the data that I saw, and the brands that I work with as well, it looks like most brands did hit their numbers or their previous year's numbers, which was good to see. Then the other thing that I that I saw was that the last ship dates during the holidays, at least this may not be so relevant to Black Friday, Cyber Monday, but during the holidays, the last ship dates were relatively conservative across brands. I don't think there were many brands like one of the brands that I work with pre Barrow, I think I work most closely with them. And I didn't see many brands push the push, push it to the end of December. Probably like what Chuck was saying no bad that as well.

Chuck Melber 19:03

As most of them were messaging like mid December is a cut off.

Nevin Jethmalani 19:07

Yeah, I felt like most brands were doing it much earlier, especially relative to what we did for last trip dates. And then I think the trend just across the industry is starting these sales so much earlier. And we started ours on for pre vai at least on Monday. And this is the Monday before Cyber Monday not Yeah, so I felt like you know even we started late. I think a good day to start would have been Saturday we probably lost some sales to other brands because we didn't start until Monday. So that's definitely something to learn on our side. Because you know, everyone is just starting earlier because they people only have x number of dollars to spend. If some brand comes and says hey or Cyber Monday or Black Friday sale starting early and they spend their money there that those guys have that have those dollars

Chuck Melber 19:58

we launched on Friday night You definitely saw a nice big spike there.

Nevin Jethmalani 20:02

Yeah, exactly. So that's, that's a. That's a week before Black Friday, right? Yeah, yeah,

Chuck Melber 20:07

exactly. Works really well or seem to work really well for us.

Nevin Jethmalani 20:11

Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's definitely what we're gonna do next year, either Friday or Saturday.

Josh Knopman 20:16

Yeah, I definitely echo that as well, that was one of our biggest learnings from 2020. We launched about, I think, a week ahead of Black Friday, we actually launched this year on November 8, Monday, November 8, so quite a bit earlier. It drove a massive, massive increase in revenue from what we can tell incremental millions of dollars. And the efficiency we are seeing was tremendous. I think our Early Access SMS alone drove $100,000. And just seeing the season kind of creep up. I think we've started internally, and now branding, using the term cyber season instead of cyber week or cyber month to make it clear how expensive it is, because I think you're seeing some large retailers start in late October and go all the way through December. And so that's something we're trying to figure out for next year of just how early do we want to start that sale? Because we really do see a strong customer response. And yeah, I'll be really curious, Chuck, we kept our offer consistent, probably could have done a better job messaging that it would be consistent, we'll always see some element of people waiting. But that's yeah, definitely a strategy we're exploring as well. Yeah. So you guys kept it from November 8, all the way through to the end of November, through the end of December. Actually, it was supposed to be right after Cyber Monday. And the numbers were so good that we said, let's just keep going. And then every week, you can check in or look, the numbers look great still so kept going. So it definitely it felt kind of endless towards the end. But it was definitely strong performance that we saw from it and to your earlier point. And then as well, we did a pre launch AB test between two different tier structures. So we offered 1015 20% off depending how much you spent, we tried putting our hero product which was a cookware set in the 10% bracket versus 15% bracket and tested it with a subset of consumers, I hit up our public launch for our offer. And we saw a double digit increase in revenue by putting that hero product in the 15% tier with a smidge lower ARV. But the revenue difference was huge. And it actually maximized our top line and bottom line. So to your point on maximizing discounts as much as possible, and really pushing it. Yeah, definitely saw that effect. or so. No, that's that's exactly what we saw as well. The more discount you can give anything above 20% really moves the needle, anything below 20% Just doesn't for us at least 20 I mean, that being said, our welcome offer that 15. So yeah, I guess different brands, different scenarios.

Dan Brady 22:51

Josh, I'm curious, since you had cyber season, you know, it's very extended, from a marketing perspective, when you're sending out marketing emails, like how did you get fresh, exciting verbiage in there to like let customers know the sale was still going on, while not sounding like super repetitive just being like, hey, you know, just reminder, we're still running the sale? You know what I mean? Like?

Josh Knopman 23:14

Yeah, that's a great question. We definitely had to put our thinking hats in for that one, considering how long it when we luckily launched a limited edition color at the same time, around the same time. And so we kind of alternated pushing that we came out with a gift guide. I know we're talking about that earlier, alternating, pushing that as well. And so we tried to switch up the messaging and make it front and center. But not everything was like sale sale sale. I think nailing email and SMS frequency is very difficult during the November timeframe, but our kind of unsubscribe rates were well below target overall. And yeah, I mean, those two channels alone, we saw a huge, huge impact.

Chuck Melber 23:56

I'm curious to hear how you guys, especially do you, Josh, and maybe it's well, basically everyone during Black Friday, Cyber Monday season, how do you treat your audience, especially your email and SMS list after they make a purchase? Do you then omit them from future marketing sense for a duration? Or do you just keep going for it the whole cyber season? Yeah,

Josh Knopman 24:15

it was a little difficult because we ran into some supply chain issues because we like blew through most of our inventory. And so with that, we did do some exclusions. We're focusing kind of now as things start shipping out, we ship dates as late as February on kind of the cross sell side, but focus mostly on the new customer acquisition and acquiring customers or in sorry, and retention marketing with customers who joined I think at least 30 days before to your point earlier, we excluded the people as well, who bought right before the sale. So this is I'm glad you actually brought this up again, because I had a point on this. I think it varies brand to brand. So it depends on on how, how frequently your customer buys from you, and how, how many of them buy from or what period of time after their first purchase, they make their second purchase from you. So for pre Vai, for example, we ran the data. And we noticed that within 60 days of the first purchase, I think 70% of our purchasers our second purchasers made their second purchase within the first 60 days. So based on that we limited the amount of segmentation that we did in terms of purchasers, we didn't want to overwhelm customers, so we didn't send the daily emails to everyone. So we did exclude purchasers on Sundays. But we still sent even to purchasers throughout cyber week, multiple times. And we see all we saw an uptick from that when looking at the data after

Chuck Melber 25:48

what about someone who bought on like day one a cyber week, would you then also send them a Black Friday, you know, in a Cyber Monday email?

Nevin Jethmalani 25:54

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we sent we sent them because our, we sell eyewear, right, so a pair of sunglasses, if the price is good, people will buy multiple pairs. And if they do not necessarily buy eyewear, sunglasses, or they have bought sunglasses, they may buy prescription eyewear or they may buy something as a gift for someone. So yeah, we found a very effective to send to purchasers, especially on those two big days, maybe we might have said segmented out purchasers on some of them days in between that those two big, big ones we definitely sent to our all our list.

Chuck Melber 26:27

What about you like Brian and McKenzie.

McKenzie Bauer 26:35

We always try to like segment out. So sending wouldn't like never sending to the we don't send to our whole list every single time we send so segmenting and then opting certain people out and they purchased within like that week. But then bringing them back in when, like we did our thing this year was like every week, we kind of did like a flash shell or like a new promotion. So it wasn't like they were getting our Black Friday deal the whole month. But each week one product or one like design was discounted. So sending that out to new people like those people would get new, the new updates, but then Black Friday week specifically, if someone purchased on Black Friday, then we would exclude them from a send on Saturday. And then come Cyber Monday when we're sending out a reminder about cyber Monday, we send it to them again. So there were getting excluded for some not being bombarded. But getting the high like the high value emails when they needed them. Which this was our first year having an agency help us do all our SMS and email, which was so nice. So like we had flows built out in a lot better way. And that helps as well. When you've got people purchasing that frequently. I think a lot of times people ask, and I saw on the list of questions, it's like what do you do after someone purchases during these months. And having your flows nailed down I think is one of those really important factors into keeping them in the know with your brand and what's going on. And this month is our birthday. So re engaging them for the fun things that we have going now. And I think is really important with flows, which our marketing agencies helped us a lot with, with speaking. Go ahead.

Nevin Jethmalani 28:34

Go ahead. Go ahead.

Chuck Melber 28:36

Um, yeah, I just wanted to add, like on the segmentation plan during the holidays, you know, one of the things that I don't like is when I place an order, and then it's like, on the way to me, and I haven't gotten it yet. And the brand comes back and says, Hey, here's a new thing you might want. So we have tried to treat people that have an order in transit a little bit differently. But as soon as someone receives their product, at least, you know, our business like there, we find them ready to go again. And that experience of receiving it really lends them to maybe coming back and using the holiday code again, we don't limit it to one use. So we might say hey, feel free to get whatever else you want. And that doesn't create the same tension of like getting the email and thinking, Well, you know, my order from Tuesday is still not here. So why am I going to order again? And there's there's a ton of ways to do that through segmentation or with flows.

McKenzie Bauer 29:37

I think it's also really important to understand I mean, we all know this, but to really think about it in the fact that like for us at least we use Klaviyo for email and attentive for SMS. So Clay vo we're paying for our subscriber base not person, whereas a tentative we're paying per send. So you don't want to be sending to everybody. At one point, you want to be excluding people who have purchased or who are waiting for their orders, things like that. Because otherwise your bill is going to be so expensive for people who aren't, they already purchase, they don't need to get another text the next day. So we really tried this year to be conscious of who was getting an email who's getting a text when they were getting the email when they were getting the text, so that they weren't getting email, text, email, text, email to all all of the things all at once.

Alicia Gaba 30:31

Yeah, these are amazing points. So let's, let's shift gears to this year, we did an amazing job covering what everyone did last year. So Brian, let's start with you. What are you? How are you tackling this January through October to prep for the next cyber season?

Bryan Smith 30:54

Yeah, it's, it's a, it's kind of a, it's a hard question for me, because in my head, the holidays are still like four years away. But they're actually going to be pretty quick. So um, you know, for us, we we went through quarter three and four last year, we migrated back to recharge. And for me, the thing I realized is just choosing your, your software, and your stack carefully so that the things you can actually do with those services work and end, you know, I find a lot of times that it's easy to add an app, and then you get 90% of the way there and you find out there's some missing component to the integration that prevents you from doing what you want to do. So, you know, I found that just like really like thinking about the strategy from the end goal backwards is super helpful. And on the personalization side, we've just started sending traffic through a quiz, and have just found really interesting information through that process. And we're now updating that quiz to be a little more strategic for the next nine months. And, you know, quizzes are nothing new. But I think, for our whole team, including even, you know, customer happiness or fulfillment, the quiz is showing us things that we didn't know before. And we're really trying to use that information going forward through the year. And then I think the last thing I wanted to mention was some of the best advice we got last year was on our post purchase survey. And it was just the suggestion to switch it up and ask something different. So typically, we run a quiz, that's how did you hear about us, and we try to assist attribution, especially in channels that aren't as easy to track. But during the holidays, we just asked, What's the best net gift that you can give. And we offered five choices. And as soon as the holidays were over, we built our quarter five plan around the more popular products that were listed as gifts. And you know, it's it's great to use those periods of time where you have super high order volume to get really strategic with something like a quiz or post purchase, so that you can sort of stack the volume into a short timeframe.

Alicia Gaba 33:37

I love it. Those are awesome initiatives. Does anyone else have any? Any thoughts on this topic?

Dan Brady 33:43

I just wanted to add in regards to post purchase surveys. If any companies run a NPS survey, I know for us we do so via delighted if you have here set for maybe like seven weeks or two weeks after purchase, I would strongly recommend changing that to 30 days after purchase just in the event. It doesn't arrive there in a week, we quickly noticed our NPS score was taking a little bit of a hit. I think we had our set for like seven days after purchase, which maybe outside of the holidays is okay. But quickly, our NPS survey became more of a avenue for complaints in terms of I haven't received my order, which of course, you know, in often cases, then we have to follow up with the customer. So just changing the timing for when your NPS survey is sent out I think gives you a better true NPS score as opposed to just you know customers expressing frustration in terms of not receiving their orders.

Nevin Jethmalani 34:35

I think through Malomo You can set it up to trigger Once an item is delivered or X number of days after an item is delivered. Right?

Alicia Gaba 34:43

Sure can. Yeah, yeah.

Nevin Jethmalani 34:46

Just a suggestion there.

Alicia Gaba 34:49

Yeah, that's awesome. All right, let's, let's switch gears to privacy changes obviously Hot Topic Last year. Continuing it will continue to impact things This year, so Josh caraway, how how are privacy changes impacting your strategies for this year?

Josh Knopman 35:10

Yeah, so I think like many marketers, we underestimated how significant the effect of the iOS 14.5 rollout starting last April would be. And kind of how Facebook dealt with it from a targeting and measurement standpoint, was quite dicey for a while, and you know, to a certain degree, still fairly dicey. And so for us, you know, one channel that we've been really excited about, that we've scaled up a lot is direct mail. So it's, it's definitely one of the more you know, old school or older channels, I mean, I would say a lot of brands are starting to do it now. But for us, you know, it's something that we're so excited being a very visual brand showing kind of the the cookware, the bakeware, to customers kind of on these large, their inserts or mailers. And kind of having the information to do from a measurement standpoint to do kind of, they're called incremental address match back. So we're able to look at, hey, these are who, you know, the mailers went out to, these are the addresses of people who bought and kind of mash them together, you can do a whole that as well to gauge incrementality. So in my opinions on my favorite channel, because you get the best of both worlds, you have a chance to showcase visual creative. And if you do it right, it'll really stand out in people's mailboxes. The measurement is fantastic. Those that's measurement, you know, a incremental match back or incremental address match back is better than most measurement you'll get from the digital platforms. And something that we're kind of excited about and really tried, you know, last q4 scale. So we spent, we spent almost 5 million mailers of various types during November alone, to really, really hit people over the head with our sale. And so with that, yeah, McKenzie just mentioned Posty, I've heard great things about we you share local media and have some direct partnerships as well. Highly recommend them. But it's definitely a channel that, you know, we continue to focus on, and one that we're super excited about moving forward. You What kind of robots do you see on that? If you don't mind me asking? Um, yeah, we see ro as above paid, you know, kind of traditional paid social channels quite a quite a bit above, we actually hold it to quite a high standard. And we focus exclusively on the increment, incremental metrics. So we make sure that we are first purchase profitable on every purchase coming from direct mail.

Bryan Smith 37:37

What kind of Josh what kind of, like, in terms of creative and messaging and offers, do you find something moves the needle with direct mail more than than others?

Josh Knopman 37:48

You know, we, I think still have a lot to learn about the channel, we, you know, we've been testing, we've been testing format, we've been testing creative, not as much offer testing as I would have liked. But I think for us, you know, one thing that we've learned is, like, try to simplify it as much as possible and make the CTA, you know, as as large as possible. But as emphasized, it's always kind of a, I don't say a battle, but a compromise between the growth team and brand team about like the growth teams always like, oh, I want this like massive thing that says, here's a discount go here, the brand teams like no top brand, we don't want to be a discount brand. And you kind of go back and forth when you align on something in the middle. And so that's what we've done a lot of. And I think for us, like we just tried to really refine the messaging and like, essentially, like one side is just like meant to like, look pretty and convey, hey, this is non toxic, because where the other side hits on a few key points, and we're like, here's our website, here's the offer, and that kind of go versus trying to tell them our whole, you know, life story, or in the opposite end, just just showing a pretty picture. So try to kind of get it in the middle there.

McKenzie Bauer 38:56

Yeah, we use I just I mentioned this in the chat, but we use Posty for direct mail. And we always see that CRM campaigns perform a lot better the row as is significantly better than prospecting campaigns. But what we really have liked, one way that we've used Posty that's been really helpful is we're rolling out kiosks. So owned retail, is that we can target people in that area. And a lot of times we see that although we're sending it out about the kiosk, we see an influx of sales attributed to our website, because people get it. It's just another touchy touch point. So I tell everybody that they should introduce that into their strategy, especially going into the holidays because yeah, with the rows that we see is significantly less than what we're paying right now for like CPMs online when we're doing retention campaigns as opposed to prospecting

Nevin Jethmalani 39:52

and Josh when you were comparing the row as to paid media, were you talking about prospecting or retargeting as well? Good question prospecting. We've also run kind of retention campaigns as well, as a business were more acquisition focused just because we're MCs were more more similar to like a mattress than a subscription brand. Because we emphasize kind of quality cookware, you shouldn't have to replace it, you know, every six months. But that is something we've dipped our toe into, we send over 100,000 kind of retention base mailers, this past holiday season. Unfortunately, for us, they actually arrived two days after our most popular new skews ran ran out of stock, because we hit the acquisition part so hot, so hard. So of course, you know, fun little supply chain challenges, but something that we've seen kind of strong rows on increment rows on in the past.

McKenzie Bauer 40:49

And you can always do at least with our the Posty, we you can do a B tests with different creative, different CTAs, all of that different offers so that you can be tracking what's going to perform best for your brand at during certain times of the year.

Alicia Gaba 41:07

Alright, sounds like direct mails hot in terms of working around privacy. Any other thoughts on that topic?

Dan Brady 41:16

I would just be curious. I feel like there's a lot of emphasis on companies and brands trying to become more and more like go green. Did anyone who ran direct mail get any complaints in regards to like, please don't send me these moving forward, you know, you're hurting the environment or anything to that extent.

McKenzie Bauer 41:35

I'd have to check with our customer experience team, but I don't think so. I don't think we've had any complaints about that. I think some people will be like, how did you get my address? It's like, well, because you purchased that's how we have your address. But other than that, I don't think we've gotten like green specific, eco friendly templates.

Dan Brady 41:58

Oh, I'm just gonna say for pure Aveda. Last year, we opened our first retail store here in San Diego. And I know our goal is to open another two to four this year. And one thing I wanted to suggest a management was just testing out direct mailers specifically probably maybe to start like San Diego, Los Angeles area. And just you know, test it out to try and drive more foot traffic to our retail store with like a discount they could bring into the store or maybe even also use online. And yeah, as it just seems ironic, we're like trying to become more go green, and like a B Corp certified and sustainable shipping. But then at the same time be like, Alright, let's start a new direct mail campaign. But yeah, I was just curious if you did get any customer complaints in regards to that. It doesn't sound like it's too big of an issue. So just curious.

Nevin Jethmalani 42:47

McKenzie, what do you try to, sorry.

McKenzie Bauer 42:50

People are worried about plastic these days of paper? It's like everything's going towards paper. So I don't know excited? No, what were you gonna say? Nothing?

Nevin Jethmalani 42:59

Yeah, have you? Did you guys see a positive ROI on prospecting when you tested it? Or is it just based on your CRM

McKenzie Bauer 43:07

for us, I need to log into it. It's been a while since I have logged into it myself. We have our Chief Brand Officer and our marketing director who do it more specifically now. But in the past, it's always been CRM that performs better. And I think that's because we are more like this or subscription. Like it's time to get something new. We've got new designs, it's fresh, it's fun. Whereas prospecting, it's kind of like, I don't need a new wallet, like I've got a wallet already. And especially if they've never heard about us. So CRM has always performed better, but we still send prospecting campaigns as it's just another touch point, but we usually allocate less of the budget for posting. So like, if we're sending out 100,000 mailers. Maybe we'll do 20,000 prospecting 80,000. See?

Nevin Jethmalani 43:57

Yeah, I mean, we're just really looking for some kind of replacement for Facebook and Instagram, to find a positive ROI. Yeah, and we're testing everything like we were on tick tock now. Yeah, just finding really difficult to find profitable growth, essentially, our biggest

McKenzie Bauer 44:13

things just talking about like post post purchase experience of moving into the new year, how do you take what you've learned, like this Black Friday was so expensive for us, we like we look back at the good old days when we first started marketing and like CPMs was it like our cost per acquisition was like four to $6. And now it's like 18, and our average order values like $32, because we have a low price point with high margin products, but they're low price points. So it's really hard to compete online. So Black Friday was really expensive for us this year. So going back to what people said, we're going to start earlier next year, we've really started to lean into Amazon more because after the shipping deadlines, all those things, it's like people can still go to Amazon and it's still probably For us, and often even more profitable than what we spend on Facebook or our website, because of how expensive things are getting, even though we have to pay like Amazon fees and all those things. But one of our biggest goals going into this year is going from like a multi channel approach when it comes to our business to an omni channel approach. So that because we're introducing kiosks, and our wholesale presence is expanding, and we have our website, and we have Amazon, that making making sure that our customer is having the same experience wherever they go. So we were talking about mailers and having a discount that the customer could get in store. But what if they don't want to go in store can they get that same discount online, so reducing the friction and the tension that's there for the customer, I think is going to be a big win in terms of like the increasing cost of online advertising because getting those customers to come back and feel that like extreme loyalty to your brand is and like for us, we're watching new products, higher price point items, trying to increase that ARV. So trying to get people to come back and feel that loyalty through an omni channel approach where they fill thread is consistent at every touchpoint from their customer experience online to our customer experience at our kiosks, I think is going to be crucial for every brand to like take a look and say okay, AR ar, ar AR channels siloed and working independently. Are they all working together to help because, you know, at some points in our business, it was like, Oh, if Amazon's winning, that it's taking away from DTC Oh, like, oh, hold of our wholesalers are winning, that we're not getting that margin. But instead looking at them as like, they're all helping each other. They're all really powerful touch point on the journey and making sure that our customers fill that cohesiveness I think is going to be a huge thing. Moving into 2022

Alicia Gaba 46:55

Awesome. I love it. All right, Mariah, I think we have tackled all of the planned topic areas. So you want to kick in with q&a?

Mariah Parsons 47:05

Yes. So I saw a few of you already answered Morgan's question about what flows that what flows are you focusing on? So thank you to you all, who answered and I saw Ashley had a question that we a question about a topic that we hadn't gotten the chance to cover yet. So this can be for anyone on the panelists, but how do you use load or leverage your loyalty and referral programs? And so anyone if anyone has any strong opinions about this, but how did you do so over this past holiday season?

Chuck Melber 47:48

I'm curious how many brands have a loyalty slash referral program? I'm not talking about affiliate but like customer referrals and stuff?

Nevin Jethmalani 47:56

Yeah. So we do that prevail? At least we do. And I mean, for us, it's just not the best performer. It's something that we didn't implement. I mean, yeah, we didn't implement it wasn't implemented properly before I got there. And then I kind of set it up to be properly implemented. But we still haven't seen a crazy good result off of the referral program for sure. And even though loyalty program is nothing, nothing crazy. What about you guys? What have you seen?

Dan Brady 48:29

I just wanted to add, like for pure Vita, you know, we have a loyalty and referral program. But as far as I know, I don't believe how we like it was essentially the same that we like, it was no different from how it would be outside of the holiday months. Like I believe for us. If you refer a friend, they get 50% off their first purchase. First purchase being key, you know, we can't have the same people getting this discount over and over. And then yeah, as far as our loyalty program, basically, you get like swell, swell points. I think we call them short dollars. And you know, you can use those for purchases. But again, those are things that we have 365 days a year. I don't think that how we use those different at all during the holiday months. So it's great to have those but I don't think we leverage those any differently during November and December compared to the other 10 months.

Alicia Gaba 49:20

Brian, did you have any thoughts? I thought I saw you come off mute, maybe.

Bryan Smith 49:25

No, just echoing what Nevin and Dan just said, I think we've just kind of like, we have a referral program running and it's pretty well integrated with, you know, our subscription and membership side of the business. But, you know, we just, we typically don't see that being like a big, big driver of performance, especially during the holidays, but I wish I could say otherwise. So if anyone has any great tips, you know, send send them our way.


I think it's also depends on the product category that you're in for us, we're in eyewear and that two, relatively affordably priced eyewear. So I don't know how many people are saving up their loyalty points on like a $40 pair of sunglasses right.

McKenzie Bauer 50:17

Now that's the same thing, we actually had a referral, we introduced a referral program and a loyalty program in 2020. And at the end of last year, we discontinued both of them because they weren't, we were not seeing the ROI that we wanted to. And so one of our big like, philosophies that business in business is like go deep rather than wide. So we cut off the lens that we're providing any fruit when the branches and are going to go deeper with things that we know work like email, SMS, different things like that, I would be curious to know that Pete, like the brands that have made it work, because I feel like same for us. Our wallets are 15 bucks, 25 bucks. So I don't know how many people are like stacking loyalty points to get any sort of discount on their product. So we found that those didn't work for us, which was unfortunate, because there was a lot of time and energy, but you got to try things to know if it does work.

Nevin Jethmalani 51:11

I'm glad we're not the only one.


Yeah, and I just wanted to add, the more I thought about it. So with our promotion, it was 50% off site wide, no discount code needed. However, with our swell loyalty program, I believe the way it would work is once you've accumulated those, you could then enter a discount code that would actually be applied on top of the 50% off, because keep in mind, that's no discount code required. So I think we did see some examples of people who were using these reward points during our 50% off sale and getting like 70 to 80% off. And so that was caught pretty early on someone on my team mentioned it, I think with our ecommerce manager, and we disabled that. And to be fair, it's not like they kind of found a little bit of a loophole, because we do very clearly advertise that you can't pack discounts on top of one another. And like when we have 50% off site wide, like that's as great of a sale as you're going to get and you can't stack any additional discount codes on top of it. So that was one adjustment we had to make was just being sure to not allow for customers to apply their loyalty points on top of the 50% off as well.

Mariah Parsons 52:23

These are phenomenal points. And I see your question in the chat Jordi. But for the sake of the break, we are going to transition to that. So I wanted to say thank you all, to all the panelists. This has been phenomenal information. And I know I couldn't jot down notes quick enough. So I'm sure our attendees feel the same. But so again, thank you for joining us, and we are going to take a five minute break. So I hope you all are back for our next round with the panelists. And we cannot wait for it. So thank you again. Thanks, guys. Okay, everyone. So welcome back. And thank you again, to all of our customer panelists, and welcome to our partner panelists. We are so excited to have you all here today to talk Black Friday, Cyber Monday trends, and to also see what all of your technology platforms are doing and looking into the new year. So with that, we just wanted to remind everyone to please keep engaging in the chat. It's been wonderful to see all these questions and comments from everyone. Also continue if you would like to use the question and answer section, but again, we've been catching the questions in the chat. But with that, we can start and I would love to introduce our panelists. So today we are joined by Dane Baker, CEO and co founder at Eco cart, an E commerce sustainability software that enables brands to offer carbon neutral orders to their customers. Brandon ROW Director of Brand and content at refersion, which manages tracks and helps grow Ambassador influencer and affiliate marketing programs. So Jordy I know you asked a question about that and we'll be sure to get there. Zachary Goodwin as well. He is the chief revenue officer at amplia. A modern working capital solution for emerging consumer brands. John Urk, co founder and CEO at rebuy, which empowers Shopify stores of all different sizes to offer personalized shopping experiences, designed to increase conversions, boost order rate or order value and retain more customers. And we are also joined by Yvette molar who is the enterprise Customer Success Manager at rebuy a referral marketing program designed to increase word of mouth marketing. So welcome to you all. And thank you so much for being here. Alicia. I'm going to turn it back to you to moderate the conversation.


Yeah, absolutely. And Ivette is from friendbuy sorry, I know you just said Rebuy Mariah, but just wanted to clarify that. Are you all caught that from the slide anyway? Okay, awesome. Welcome partner panelists, we are thrilled to have you. So we've got some great questions lined up for these experts. So we had an awesome chat with a bunch of customers about things that are changing. So we're gonna keep talking about trends for 2022. Dane, I'd love to start with you. What's your feedback on if consumers are seeking more sustainable options for their online shopping? Is this a trend that's like really taking hold here this year?

Dane Baker 55:56

Yeah, great question. Great question. Absolutely. Thank you all so much for having for having me here. I'm excited to be chatting with you all. So yeah, to answer your question directly, the short answer is absolutely, we see. You know, for a little bit context, ecocard provides a sustainable shopping experience for consumers. We partner with brands, like APL, like Ancient Nutrition, like juneshine, and many more, to provide their customers a sustainable shopping experience, both online and offline. And so what that means in practice, is we calculate the carbon footprint of their purchase, and then allow a consumer at checkout to offset that carbon footprint by adding a few extra cents to their order to make it carbon neutral. And with that, we're then funding certified carbon offset projects, like planting trees, building wind farms, etc. So that's what we do. And the quick plug. But to answer your question directly, what Yes, we see some amazing results for from from our consumers from our brands, and how brands are actually being benefited from this option that we provide and offering their customers a sustainable shopping experience. Overall, the option that we have at checkout and providing that sort of carbon neutral shopping experience is something that we have seen, consumers adopt at a much, much higher rate of what we call kind of our adoption rate, the percentage of consumers that are clicking the box, adding more to their order to make a carbon neutral, willing to literally pay more for their order to make it carbon neutral is significantly increased even over the last 12 months, about 12 months ago, our adoption rate like I just mentioned, you know, 5% was was what the percentage of consumers that were clicking the box to make their order carbon neutral today, through product improvements, of course, but also through just sort of general tailwinds in the market and consumers demanding the solution, that percentage is 28%. And so we find x that adoption rate over that time period, and we've seen much more impact happening on a per merchant per brand basis, since then, and this leads to some amazing results, customers are more willing to purchase with a brand, if knowing that their environmental impact will will be mitigated. And so because of that, we actually see about a 14% boost to cart conversion that our brands see as a direct result of partnering with EcoCAR. And that, you know, just kind of speaks to the most pure data point of a consumer is more willing to buy from a brand, knowing that they can have a sustainable or carbon neutral shopping experience. And so that's a little bit about, you know, to answer your question of Yes, absolutely. Consumers are, are almost demanding this and this becoming, you know, almost a a must have in the eyes of consumers today.

Alicia Gaba 58:46

Yeah, Dan Brady at pure Vita, who's obviously just on the panel prior to this spoke of their initiative. And I know the rest of you on the panel are not probably as focused on sustainability, necessarily, as Dane, but does anyone else have any other comments that they're around the trends that they're seeing regarding sustainability and things that their customers are asking for around that topic?

Brandon Rowe 59:13

I would just say brands in general, I've even seen, you know, big retail brands no longer doing embroidery on clothing that that they offer because it does lead to increase waste, for instance. So just from a brand perspective, it's definitely top of mind in a lot of the conversations that I'm having with my peer set, so thinking I might be given young call.

Dane Baker 59:39

Looking forward to it.

John Erck 59:42

I can just see, I can see from a consumer standpoint, I definitely care about that with how many you know if you're really in the ecommerce just for yourself personally and you think about how many boxes show up at your doorstep on a regular basis. I think we do need to be really cognizant about the impact like you know, those boxes are in airplanes and trucks. and that sort of thing. And sometimes we just see the box and hey, we get what we're looking for. It's awesome. But you know, I really care about it as a consumer, you know, for what that's worth. So

Alicia Gaba 1:00:13

that is where something, John for sure. Okay, let's, let's switch gears, obviously, there was some chatter in the chat function around affiliate marketing. So this topic just like continues to be on fire. So, Brandon, what are you seeing? What are the trends? What are the new innovative ways that people are using affiliate marketing as we head into this new year?

Brandon Rowe 1:00:39

Yeah, so I think without question, it's been, obviously the crater. Commerce is definitely taking over, we obviously saw things like social commerce really taking off. And what I want to do is just kind of unpack what does affiliate marketing look like in 2022. And what we're seeing is around 15%, of revenues, from digital marketing channels can be attributed to affiliate marketing, it's caught up with the likes of email marketing, and paid social media marketing as one of a more effective way to target niche audiences and really get in front of them. And then the numbers are really speaking for themselves. STATISTICA put out numbers around how affiliate marketing expenditures alone should hit 8.2 billion, great number of what does that compare to from 2012 to 2.5 billion. So significant increase. And really, that's being driven by the crater economy that we're in everybody at home, explored new opportunities, new ideas, from a creative standpoint, open new businesses. And as a result, that stats are really showing that 92% of folks are felt that influencer marketing is an effective, scalable strategy to drive more revenue in 2022. And on top of it, like everything else, automations key for that, what what all can be done on the back end, to make the experience seamless, people want to make sure that they're paid on time. And a lot of that was validated. With what we saw in the Black Friday results were average order values that were significantly higher, resulting from affiliate marketing sales, compared to regular traditional methods through social commerce. So I think where we're headed is really a lot of the automation efforts. What can be done by AI and other efforts? I think data is also going to be huge. Obviously, there was a lot of talk about cookies going away last year. And what that means a lot of the data first party data, being able to analyze that, being able to ask for zero party data and whatever the customer is willing to offer to help start building out profiles and really fine tuning their experiences. And I say all that because the stats are really showing too that for every dollar spent in affiliate marketing, you're getting $6.15 ROI and that that's in comparison to traditional methods where you're getting a $2, our OAS on campaigns. So what are we seeing evolved payment options. We wrote out reversion pay little pitch there, were really handles everything on the payment spectrum from end to end. So like auto conversions and payments, auto preparing tax docs, for affiliates, not fun to talk about. But it's a responsibility and a way that we're able to drive more value. I think also we're seeing folks seeking out partnerships with agencies that specialize in affiliate marketing. I think a lot of times folks want help with their strategy. And, you know, we have a wealth of partner agencies that can really help bring the programs to life. I know I'm, obviously that's one of the biggest challenges is investing the time in the strategy and developing relationships. One of the main things that we're seeing behind the scenes are, it's almost a flip of the coin where, you know, the little brands really wanted to chase and be that next big brand. And it's almost the inverse now, where we're seeing a lot of these big brands say, like, Alright, I want to work with these nano micro influencers. They're right at the heart of the niche audiences that I'm trying to target. I see better returns on my investments. And I wouldn't even be surprised if we start to see maybe some blending of affiliate marketing. As part of loyalty programs, I've seen Taco Bell and sweet green, for instance, come out with subscription passes, I can see that evolving to where they, these bigger brands start to target those niche audiences and really get in front of the customers and drive foot traffic or, you know, online orders. So it's pretty interesting to see just the combination of, you know, everything that's transpired in the seismic shifts that we're seeing and how important affiliate marketing now is becoming. Because really, it comes back to trust and data. At the end of the day, am I getting the data that I need? am I building trust with my customers and my building trust with the affiliates and influencers that I'm working with, in order belly of the day reversions helping with that, whether it's, you know, setting folks up with their first affiliate campaign, bringing thought leadership, etc. So I just think now more than ever, it's it's just really this combination of creators coming together and borrowing of strategies, from big brands to small brands and small brands to big brands. So those are really kind of the the top of mine, of what we're seeing and hearing. And I won't even touch the metaverse on this call, where that might potentially go.


Yeah, so in Jordi's, his question from the earlier panel, one of the things he asked is like, what would he ask the brands? What would you do differently in 2022? So I'll try to flip that. Since your since you're on the vendor side, like, is there anything that you saw from maybe your newbie adopters of reversion or people who are new to affiliate marketing that they like, what were those lesson learned? And what was Was there any themes around? Okay, let's do something different next time? Yeah,

Brandon Rowe 1:07:01

yeah, absolutely. Great question. So I think gamification is big incentives in messaging, really are kind of a core focus. But ultimately, at the end of the day, people are realizing that they need to develop and invest more time in their relationships with the influencers that they work with. These folks are very protective of their own brand and their audiences. And I've even seen and heard, where big brands are actually having the influencers, boost. And it's done in an authentic way, because they're working with them, they believe in the product, and they're willing to put their own personal brand on the line for that. And that actually helps bring Authenticity to a brand, whether they're small, big, or somewhere in between.


Yep, awesome. Seeing a lot of nodding heads from the panelists, anything else you guys want to throw in there before we switch gears?

John Erck 1:08:04

Well, I mean, I suppose is a small plug for our product, but it's where my expertise is, and it released a reversion. And so our entire company was founded on the idea that your best customers, your existing customer, and so you know, growing your business, through happy customers, and I'm sure a lot of the influencers, that they need to love the product to begin with. And I'm sure refreshen, you know, helps boost that and find influencers that truly love the product. So when they promote the product, it's authentic. And something that you can think about doing and 2022 to improve your affiliate marketing is personalizing that on site experience. So we actually did a project with pura Vita and with refersion. And when those affiliates are driving traffic to the online store, they want to be, you know, have attribution for those sales, of course. And so there's a URL parameter that that is used and all the links that they share, there'll be like refersion, ID, you know, XYZ, let's say, in ribeye, so we're big into on site, personalization, you can actually do URL based rules. So you can make a rule in our product that says, if the URL contains refreshen, Id XYZ, and that's a specific affiliate, like a top affiliate, then you can connect that data source to your widget and then you can say, you know, customer like affiliate name favorites. So you can actually make a seamless handoff between that link. So when person on say Instagram clicks that link, say it's like Jill's recommended products or Jill's favorite products. The name Jill can show up on the website. And you can actually recommend products on the website without having to create a whole landing page. You can do this in a scalable fashion. So if they click that link, it says it says, you know, Jill's favorite products for this season. For example, and I've permitted that and it was completely next level integration to have the handoff between the link and the website be seamless and personalized based on where that users coming from. And it's just one strategy you can use to really up your game when it comes to increasing conversions and just creating a really sophisticated experience that influencer gets to live on the actual site and have an influence on that experience. It's really, really pretty cool. It's an idea.

Alicia Gaba 1:10:32

That is awesome. And yeah, you took the words out of my mouth, that is taking things to the next level, for sure. I love it. Okay, so let's switch gears to experience. There's a lot of bases to cover when it comes to customer experience. But Zachary, let's, let's give you the floor, what is what's one really important thing for brands to be focused on after the holiday season as it relates to that customer experience that they might maybe forget to do or not think about?

Zachary Goodwin 1:11:01

Yeah, I love this question. And let me first quickly thank the Malomo team for hosting today and the opportunity to speak on behalf of amplia alongside all of these great technology partners and customers, so excited to be here. But yeah, what's one important thing brands can do after the holidays? And, and so if I'm a brand, okay, we've seen now and realize this spike in new customers over the holiday season. So how do we now continue to build on that momentum? Of course, and how do we keep customers engaged, keep them active? How do we optimize customer retention all ultimately, especially in light of the the challenges that have been discussed today, many of which, you know, are imposing new new challenges and sort of disruption to some of the traditional strategies that that we've leveraged or brands have leveraged for, for customer retention. And so, you know, some of these have been highlighted and perfect segue, but they stem from things like the limitations, of course, to first party data, and how brands can leverage these things. This, this, of course, has a big impact on ROI for those those channels. And, you know, a big one that that we certainly see, and I'll maybe talk through this a bit more is the disruption and the challenges related to supply chain, you know, stemming from freight and shipping costs, slower production, in many, many brands, of course, will also burn through a lot of their inventory, you know, through the holiday months, they need capital to, you know, to re up into, you know, to to push back and light up production again. And so, you know, where we're seeing brands have a lot of success in light of this to keep that momentum going to capitalize on you know, the the customer acquisition, or, you know, that that spiked over the holidays. So, you know, number one, yes, of course, they're, they're lighting up new customer acquisition strategies, whether that's leveraging new marketplaces, you know, on site, personalization, through chat, through SMS, etc. Number two, exploring alternative production and shipping methods, which, you know, has been a big opportunity if you can solve that puzzle, but of course, you need to have the, the working capital available to to do that. And, and, you know, lastly, you know, we're seeing brands, you know, diversify and expand their, their product catalog, so they're moving beyond, you know, you know, the single SKU or, you know, a smaller number of skews to, you know, to diversify that catalog, and, and, you know, potentially, you know, leverage other means to, to ramp up their inventory. And so, you know, again, all of these things, you know, require, you know, liquid capital and that's the big challenge that we at amplia are aiming to solve. So, we've built our core lending solutions to address these pain points specifically. We, you know, they're really tailored to the challenges of these production cycles for emerging consumer brands to help you know, provide them with access to meaningful and importantly, non dilutive capital, that they can use for things like production or to ramp up marketing and to again, maintain momentum on these customer acquisition and customer retention, post holidays. And so, you know, by providing this, this very easy to access capital that's, again, very much tailored to the needs of These brands and their production cycles, we're helping, you know, we're working to solve that cash flow problem that so many emerging brands are facing, you know, both again for production and to ramp up marketing and new means to, you know, to to really optimize customer retention.

Alicia Gaba 1:15:20

Yeah, really good points. any of our other panelists have thoughts on things that customers might be forgetting to do? Should we switch gears? Okay, so this next topic is kind of a fun one. Because I can speak from my own experience that customers buy things that they might not otherwise buy, during the holiday season, shopping for friends, family, etc, right? It's like, you're no longer shopping for yourself. And so you're going a little bit outside of your typical buying behaviors. So how, how are brands using that data to inform their retention strategies in 2022? And I think, John, let's, let's start with you, and would love to hear what you have to say on this topic.

John Erck 1:16:09

Yeah, totally. Like I mentioned earlier, our entire company is founded on this idea that your best customer is your existing customer. And I think it can sound really straightforward when you think about it. Early on, in my career, I was I was running a direct to consumer brand. And I was always out there trying to land the next new customer. And at the time, I was forgetting to sell to my existing customers. And that was a big lost opportunity, until that sort of age old sales adage, was, you know, brought to my attention. And it was a bit of a business epiphany to me at the time, I was like, Wow, that's so cool. I never thought of that. And really, it's the best way to grow your company is through happy customers. All of us, you know, whether it's somebody recommending us, you know, software as a service, you know, product, like many of us here are a part of or, you know, you bought something from a brand. You know, if you just say like, I love my new MacBook Pro, or I love my iPhone 13 Or I love, you know, you name the products, there's so many cool products in our lives. And if your friends are telling you that, hey, this is awesome, it's, it's the very, the very best thing that can possibly happen. So you can grow. The point is that you can grow your business and get new customers by focusing on your existing ones. So a lot of the brands out there are going to have brand new customers, people that have bought from the brand for the first time in the scenario of a gift. You should follow up with all your holiday shoppers, and message them, you know, based on the fact that maybe they bought a gift for somebody, maybe they didn't, you know, maybe you can do some analysis and segmentation and say like was billing address different than, you know, shipping address, or just, you know, or just follow up with them just you know, generically, and you know, and just say, you know, hey, you bought during the holiday season, maybe it's time to treat yourself, you know, and but basically, even if you're buying a gift for somebody else, you you might have heard good things, you know, from the recipient, like, Hey, I love those sunglasses, you bought me cool, I've always honor those for myself, but basically don't forget, you know, target your existing customers, they may have bought for somebody else, and maybe it's time for them to buy for themselves this time around. So just keep that in mind, I think it's a really smart thing to do. I think it's a core a core part of a lot of very successful businesses. Another thing too, is, you know, you know, obviously one of the things I'm an expert on is, you know, our company and the value that we can add to brands. And so, as a personalization engine, I like to help to demystify AI for people. We're a big AI driven company, we do automated product recommendations. There's a lot of intelligence codified in your order data. So that's one of the things that we've really committed ourselves to is like surfacing smart product recommendations, based on what people buy. I think the panelists from before from thread wallets talked about that Amazon is a very effective sales channel for them. I know we all love Shopify, I love Shopify, Amazon does some cool stuff, too. And so you know, we can all learn something from Amazon and improve our Shopify stores too. So we've democratized what Amazon does. One of the things Amazon does really well. And these are data driven product recommendation algorithms, so you can learn a lot from how your shoppers buy. And so at a high level, you know, one of the things that we do is we kind of unlock that collective intelligence from all the shoppers that came before you with one of our algorithms, which is an also by algorithm. Um, so I want to Dan Brady talked about this about an hour ago, he talked about email and SMS. So okay, so think about this. Um, we all want to drive traffic to our online store, and there's like two really, really important things when that when you drive that traffic it can be from you know, Clay vo attentive postscript, all these marketing automation tools, it could be ads, everybody's driving to the online store there, you should have two goals that you should be super conscious about. One is increasing average order value, that, you know, I don't have to necessarily unpack that one, it's a big one, if you can turn whatever you paid to get that person on there, if you can get more out of that transaction, that's going to have a huge impact and then conversions. Okay, so think about this over 30% of Amazon sales are related to smart product recommendations, you search for something, you look at it, you scroll down, you know, customers who bought this also bought this customers who viewed this ultimately bought this, these are personalized product recommendations for you, you should be doing that it increases conversions. If people land on their website, they can't find the right product, that's, that's a problem, you're not going to convert them. So product discovery. So you know, you know, people are big brands are big into SMS and email for good reason. Don't forget to optimize where you're driving the user just getting on the website isn't enough, you want to make make great product recommendations, to convert them and you know, get the have them discover, you know, products that they maybe we're unaware of. So, um, I have some notes here. So basically, like, you know, a little bit more about the user at each step. So I think this is helpful to elucidate like, for example, when somebody is looking at a product page, you like, if they land on your homepage, you know that they're interested in your brand. But you don't know a lot more great. They're on the homepage, once they click into a product, they just told you a ton about them, they told you about what they're interested in. So do smart product recommendations on your product page, based on what they're currently looking at. Once they clicked and put something in the shopping cart, now you really know what they're interested in. So do personalization based on what's in their shopping cart, do smart product recommendations for them, based on what's in their cart, the same thing can take place in the checkout, post purchase. And then, you know, on the Malomo tracking page to like they made a purchase, they're wondering when it's going to be there, make smart racks, you know, based on what they bought. So again, focus on your existing customers, they can help grow your business in a big way. Focus on increasing conversions, and ARV, and recommended products is one of the best ways you can do it. And then focus on each touchpoint all the way through to the Malomo page, it's like a big initiative for brands should be turning every customer touchpoint into a sales opportunity. And recommended products are like probably one of the best ways to do that. So I think be really conscious about your online store as a funnel, and that you know more about the user at each step. And then key off of that to create an intelligent shopping experience for them. And it can have a huge, huge impact on your business and the customer experiences, which is what it's all about. So just some ideas.

Alicia Gaba 1:22:58

Yeah, product recommendations cost me a lot of money per year. So

John Erck 1:23:05

we all love them. We love them. Like think about going into a restaurant. Some of this stuff is super, super commonplace in other industries, like, you know, earlier my career like a long time ago, like I had fun being a server in restaurants. And like if somebody says, Hey, I'm looking at, you know, this entree, like they just told you a lot about what you know. And you can recommend things that pair well with it. So this is this stuff is super commonplace in the foodservice industry. And but it's not in an online store. like Shopify gives you an awesome framework. Um, but you know, by and large, it's a basic online store, and they leave it up to the app community to like, you know, solve these problems. And so you want to be doing your upselling and cross selling and automating that automation was mentioned earlier. You know, you can set up your rules and let the AI make the wrecks for you. And you know, based on patterns that we see in buying behavior, and you can be asleep at night, and you can have an intelligent website, we can smart product racks at each point, just like a server doing a restaurant. So it's pretty basic stuff. But it's, you know, not happening a lot. It's starting to happen for online stores. But it's, you know, we take it for granted elsewhere, but it's a big opportunity if you're not doing it the right way. So yeah, just some thoughts to keep in mind for sure.

Alicia Gaba 1:24:17

Yeah, awesome. Any other panelists have thoughts around like what else? What else should brands be thinking about doing to optimize the kind of holiday database and retain those customers? Don't all chime in at once? Okay, awesome. We'll switch gears. I'm Yvette. So let's, let's pass things over to you. So would love to hear some thoughts around like how are brands testing their referral strategies to figure out what's going to be what's going to have the biggest impact?

Ivette Muller 1:24:58

Yeah, so thank you so much. I was, you know, super excited to be part of this panel. And then when the previous discussion with the customers haven't been, oh, we, you know, are we We're programmer referral program didn't work that well, I was like, Oh, I have a lot of questions and a lot of follow ups. But, um, you know, friend by really, you know, takes the power of word of mouth marketing, and incentivizes the person who's referring, and then the friend who's getting the referral, you know, we all just came off the holidays, and whether we were able to get together in person, or virtually, you know, you, you see somebody that you haven't seen in a while, like, oh, my gosh, I love your earrings. Where did you get them? Oh, my gosh, your skin looks amazing. What are you doing? And these conversations just happen naturally. And really, the three keys to a successful referral program are awareness, accessibility and ease of use, you know, does the customer know you have a referral program? And can they find it quickly? On your website? And is it easy for them to like, oh, well, you know, I'm using this new skincare, you know, this new scrub this new facials from here, and here's a link, you know, is it easy for them to send it to a friend, and, you know, those impulse referrals are really the key to success with, you know, a Referral Engine. And, um, you know, the biggest thing is that, we want to optimize the impulse referrals at certain, you know, at the different parts of the funnel. So the very first thing at the top of the funnel is, you know, making that offer as attractive as possible for your advocates to want to share and talk about your brand. So if you know, if your site wide offer is 30%, but potentially, you're only giving your referrals 10% discount, they're not going to be incentivized to refer that friend, because the friend can get a better discount just going on the website. So you really want to think about the strategy. And when they make that referral, you know, really treating that as goal because when somebody gives a referral, they're already taking that know, like, and trust factor and like exponentially, you know, taking it off the mark, because that person's already had a good experience with you, and now they're sharing that to somebody is going to be more likely to purchase because somebody else, you know, they're getting a personal referral. So you know, you want to make it as attractive as possible. And then also, once the friend gets that link, is, you know, making sure that their experience is positive, making sure that the offer is clear that the call to action is very clear, when they get the reward that it you know, either displays, it displays the code, and then it emails them in case they get, you know, distracted so that they always have you know, that access, and then you know, really the reward delivery experience, you know, how easy is it for them to redeem that reward, you know, adding it to the cart, and just really, overall making the customer experience the best that it can be. And obviously, we all look at that with, you know, working within our cost constraints and our margins, but you know, the cost of acquisition is already exponentially better, because somebody gave you a referral, and you're paying, you know, potentially a discount versus paying for advertising. So yeah, so that's, you know, big, the biggest thing is, how do they make how to customers or how to brands make sure that they have a really great offer strategy. So like I said, if the call if the website offer is better than the referral, you know, it may fall flat. So really, the things to test are, for example, your call to action placements, is it really easy for somebody to go on the website and see, hey, I can refer a friend and get $20 or I can give a friend $10 off. And you're really just analyzing where that call to action is, is it in the top nav is it in a ribbon, and you know, if it's in the bottom footer, and people have to scroll, you're gonna have a you know, a lower, you're gonna just have lower success because they're not going to want to scroll to find it. So really, you know, just making that easy for them. Um, and the other thing is, you know, just being able to test where that ribbon is because you know, when you're on a homepage or on any page, where's the best part? Is it on the left? Is it on the right is that kind of like at a bottom pop up. So really testing where that is optimal for every individual brand and customer is critical. And, you know, with the friend by platform, we do have the opportunity to test where it goes and just find the optimal place for every customer. Um, the other opportunity to test is the actual offer. You know, does the offer work better if you give it off or a percentage off. It may also be, you know, a discount code or account credit, maybe they want to build up their credit to buy something big, or they want to like save up kind of like gift cards, they want to save that up. So it's really, you know, fine tuning and tweaking what works for the customer and working for the brand. And then, you know, really the last thing is just when the friend redeems the reward, giving the person who referred them their reward as quickly as possible, and making sure that all of those things pieces are easy and attractive for them to redeem.


I love it. I feel like all of you have covered super obvious things. But also, the power is in the execution, right? Like we all know that we should be, we should have referral program. John touched on a lot of things like just really obvious restaurant industry does this, we should do this here. But it all comes down to the execution. And can you do these things really well.

John Erck 1:31:06

And I think it's challenging to do it in a web environment or an online environment where it comes natural to us as people. So like an in person environment, it's easy to deliver on. But in like a web or like, you know, tech environment, it, you know, it can be more challenging. So it does take effort, and you have to find the right apps and the right partners and really commit yourself to it as a brand. But I think, you know, there's a big payoff for the brands that do it well. And it's certainly worth it.

Alicia Gaba 1:31:35

Yeah, absolutely. So Mariah, let's tackle some questions you want to chime in with anything that's shown up on the q&a?

Mariah Parsons 1:31:45

Yes. So as that I know, you just were speaking, but we're gonna toss it right back to you. Because David, shout it out friend by in the chat. And so I personally had a question as to with on site and off site rewards or referrals? Has there been any differences with or any trends with different brands, like a certain industry off site versus on site works really well, or any consumer behavior around how those two differ?

Ivette Muller 1:32:16

Yeah, so when they're on site, you know, depending on the product itself, customers have an expectation of whether they want more of that product, or they're going to want something that they can use somewhere else, whether that be an Amazon gift card or, you know, redeeming credit for, you know, a restaurant, and it really has to do with the individual product category. So that's, that's a big part of it. And then, offline, you know, we do have clients that we work with that use friend buy as really as a lead generation, and transaction happens, not on a website. So we really rely on that information coming back to refer. And you know, for those bigger consideration, you know, types of items like dental aligners or furniture, you know, those things, it's really about rewarding them where they're at, again, you know, Amazon is a huge, huge incentive, as David said, because you can get whatever you want. And you know, the person referring they have gotten everything they need from the brand at this, you know, at this time.

Mariah Parsons 1:33:24

Yeah, no, that's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. And we had another question. Dane and Brandon, this one is kind of tied for you both. And also back to our customer panelists about sustainability and marketing efforts. So Have either of you seen a shift in really trying to convey through marketing efforts with affiliate marketing showcase, like sustainable mission statements? And has that been a bigger trend that you think is going to carry into 2022? And why do you think there's been more of an emphasis on, like, really showcasing mission statements that align with sustainability? Dean Wilson will kick it off to you first, and then Brandon, I'd love to hear what you have to say, to follow up.

Dane Baker 1:34:15

Yeah, great question. I think, you know, we see some really clever ways that our brands that we work with, as well as just brands in the industry generally, are leveraging and highlighting their sustainability initiatives, I'd say, you know, on the I can't really speak too much on the affiliate side, or to the other part of the question, but generally, you know, what we see in across the industry is, you know, huge marketing splashes when it comes down to you know, partnerships going live or or initiatives happening around everything that a brand is doing for sustainability generally and how they can provide that sustainable shopping experience to their customers. And so we you know, we see this, I think You know, part of your question was, why is this happening? I think, you know, the the core reason, or the thing that pops to mind initially is, you know, I think that COVID changed a lot of things. And, you know, I think that it's, you know, sort of a small function of that, considering consumers are purchasing a lot more online than they were before. And I also think that consumers are becoming more fundamentally aware of their own, I'd say, their own consumer activity as it relates to the effects of that in the world generally. And one of the core kind of Top of Mind things for consumers is what is the the environmental impact of what I'm what I'm doing. And that is kind of only exacerbated when it comes down to, you know, last mile delivery, everything that has to do with the convenience of getting an item to your doorstep, all of that together is something that is pronounced in the wake of COVID, considering the sheer volume of, of E commerce that has accelerated. And so I think that that's a big thing that's top of mind for consumers. And, you know, therefore, for brands. And so, because of that, right, if we're talking about sort of the logic chain, I think that because of those two things, that I just mentioned previously, is we see a huge splash, when it comes down to marketing these these initiatives to customers and see really clever ways of doing that, whether it be you know, simply giving, like reducing packaging, reducing packaging, or plastic packaging and having more eco friendly packaging for the beginning. Or it's, you know, compensating for the unmitigated carbon footprint, which happens from, you know, in manufacturing emissions as well as as well as delivery emissions. And so all those things together are what we see our brands, you know, having a big focus on and there's a really clever ways that we see some, some brands incorporating this into their into their entire shopping journey pre purchase at the point of purchase, and then post purchase as well. And then you know, whether it be like retargeting those consumers back to your website to reengage with the platform and with the brand, because you know, what they what they care about, which is being eco conscious consumer, all those things together are really great ways to to leverage sustainability initiatives and, and how to how to make the most out of a of any initiative that you have going

Brandon Rowe 1:37:20

on. Yeah, and I would echo a lot of what Dane was saying, I know for us personally to health and wellness and beauty are some of the the two top verticals that, you know, we a lot of our customers play in, and that has an inherent tie in to, you know, in bettering oneself in the environment around them. So I think for us in particular, we're starting to see the advent of purposeful intent, whether it's branding, giveaways anything of that nature on whether or not it can be reused again, how does this and better my own health, etc. And I think, to Dan's point, it's just been a renewed focus visually for folks of how much waste can be associated with deliveries and packaging and things of the like, I know for our brand, personally, we're not going to be sending stuff out anymore, that doesn't either, you know, have a way to be recycled into the environment itself, or that A is able to be reused effectively. So I think at the end of the day, it's often embraced just based on the verticals, that our customer base typically plays him.

Mariah Parsons 1:38:41

They're both awesome perspectives. Thank you so much for sharing. It is so interesting to see how everything connects. And like Alicia was saying, to do something as 111 thing, but to do it well is another. And along that line, we have one question, which I believe is for you, John, getting some love in the chat about revive. But are you considering creating a way to make dynamic reorder pages? So I'm not sure if you're allowed to disclose that information? But if you are, please do share?

John Erck 1:39:18

Yeah, totally. Um, yeah, it's like, that's one of the things that I touched on at the beginning is this idea that, you know, you really need to take care of your existing customers, they expect to hear from you again, they buy from you one time. You know, they're probably having a good experience with your product if you're selling something you care about that's quality. And so you want to make you want to make it easy and frictionless for them to you know, rebuy from you again and again, and tailoring that experience for them as a person. So yeah, we have two landing page technologies through our products that are available today. One is a one click reactivate my subscription. So we make it easy for people to sort of read by They're recharge subscription products through this configurable landing page. I know Kirby was on earlier, they use that product, it's really cool. And then we have our, you know, seamless and personalized reorder pages. So really, all you need to do is feed it a Shopify order ID, and we're able to recognize who the customer is what they bought. And then you can configure it with, you know, different data sources, to control the recommendations for them based on on what they bought. So it's big in fashion and beauty, if they bought a certain color, or a certain product, a lot of these products are very, very complimentary. So we can either have our AI do the product recommendations based on what they bought, or the the merchant can actually codify their their own intelligence into these product recommendations by doing rules, like, you know, if the product they bought is contained by collection, a recommend products from collection B, or they can curate it based on, you know, specific products to create entire outfits that go well together, or health regimens that make sense as part of a program. It's really, really super powerful. So yeah, when somebody buys from you, it's such a huge signal about you know, who they are, what they care about, and you want to Yeah, leverage that, to cater to them and walk them through, you know, next steps with with your overall brand. Yeah.

Mariah Parsons 1:41:27

And thank you, thank you so much for sharing that answer. It's so fascinating to learn about all the technology behind all of your platforms. And with that, I'm just going to check if there's another question, but we are going to start to move towards the question. Or sorry, the giveaway portion. And so thank you to everyone who has been on this painless it both attendees and all of our speakers, it has been absolutely phenomenal to share this afternoon together. So with that, I'm going to share my screen. And we have our special giveaway. Winner. So with that Natalie Hennessy, congratulations, you are our winner for today. Be on the lookout. I'll be in contact with you shortly. But again, thank you to everyone. It has been so phenomenal. There have been so many different takeaways that I know I've shared. But that being said, we would love to hear what everyone else thinks about this panelists. So we put our LinkedIn QR code on there, we're going to be sharing our favorite takeaways, and we hope that you all engage and share some of your feedback. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to email me as well or share your feedback directly with me. If you do then maybe I'll even give you a shout out on our page. But that with that being said, thank you, everyone. Again, this has been so phenomenal. And until next time, everyone. Thank you.

Alicia Gaba 1:43:02

Awesome. Thanks, everyone. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you.